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My point was there is a shifting (unstable, transient) rather high level of society that comes to Dayton to take jobs with no intention of staying. Their aim is some place else (like Chicago or Los Angeles). Dayton is a "stepping stone" to get there.
Say you buy a house near your folks. You plan to live there. You know the area, not every last detail or all of the people, but enough that getting around for what you want is easy, etc. You have neighbors, one on each side, and so forth. After two months of moving in, you are finally settled enough. Figuring it would be a good idea to get acquainted with your neighbors already and seeing a neighbor outside tinkering with his car you go over and ask if you can help. No, but three weeks later you accidentally see him again and ask if there's any interest in a cook-out. Three months later you seem to be on friendly terms. You know he's from Kansas and his mother-in-law likes to visit. And, six months after that there's a for sale sign in his yard. He got a wonderful job opportunity in Illinois. So, a year later you are back to trying to get acquainted.
Ah I see! Sorry about the misunderstanding.
I do believe that would be true, at least from my perspective. Like the most ambitious YPs that end up here work for ____ large company for ____ division for _____ years until _____ large company transfers them somewhere else. So they never take time to plant roots, invest in their community, etc.
I see this phenomenon a lot among grads from my college. A lot work for technical companies with a lot of plants in Podunk cities. They stay for 6 months, a year, etc. and then leave. In the meantime, 100% of their efforts are dedicated to that company.
I don't have any articles analyzing this trend offhand, but I can guarantee city lab has a nice collection. I will also post links to job descriptions for the type of positions Im describing as well which reside in the Dayton area. GE is a notable example.
Originally from overseas, I'm a "coastal" person who came to Dayton to work at Wright-Patterson. I have a PhD in engineering and an almost ideal job. But outside of the base, my quality of life is abysmal. I've been associated with Dayton on and off for 20+ years, have lived in the Miami Valley longer than anywhere else throughout my life, but don't in the least consider Dayton to be "home".
My #1 quality of life issue? I'd like to get married, but am unable to find a wife. As a child-free, secular person, my options are parlously limited.
Nevertheless, I'll likely remain in Dayton for another 10-15 years, if not longer. The job is simply too good to forego.
Does my situation fit the OP's hypothesis?
Yes. You'd leave in a day if WPAFB had an office elsewhere.
1. There's something holding you to "back there," a relative, place, experience ... something.
2. You're not looking for the mysteries or joys in the area and may be PhD aloof.
Yes. You'd leave in a day if WPAFB had an office elsewhere.
1. There's something holding you to "back there," a relative, place, experience ... something.
2. You're not looking for the mysteries or joys in the area and may be PhD aloof.
(That's two points.)
I'd never have moved to the American Midwest, or to a city with less than a million people, were it not to have been for my job. Nevertheless, the job is the job; it's essentially irreplaceable, and not mobile. So here I am.
The point isn't to whinge, but to assert that this is something that Dayton did "right"... Dayton attracted (if that's the proper term) what's at least theoretically the sort of person to whom is imputed the role of community gentrification and the spurring of economic vitality. And again because of my job, I'm not leaving. Desire to leave, and actual capacity to leave, are very different things. And since I'll likely be spending my entire professional-life here, well, one has to make the best of a given situation.
I think if the "outsiders " moving here read up on some Dayton history, they
would understand where the "natives" are coming from.
Ha Ha...indeed! I have and I get it.
Quote:
The point isn't to whinge, but to assert that this is
something that Dayton did "right"... Dayton attracted (if that's the proper
term) what's at least theoretically the sort of person to whom is imputed the
role of community gentrification and the spurring of economic vitality. And
again because of my job, I'm not leaving. Desire to leave, and actual capacity
to leave, are very different things. And since I'll likely be spending my
entire professional-life here, well, one has to make the best of a given
situation
Ironically enough, I sort of can see that, in my case. I guess my contribution was part of the fan/patron base for Canal Street Tavern, 5th Street Pub and similar venues, my work with the Save the Arcade folks, various contributions to the LBGT community, and that urban affairs blogging and posting I used to do.
I sort of commented to Esrati on this, that it was suprising that it wasn't a native Daytonian who gave a damn enough about the history & geography & urban things to bother blogging on the place. Well..Esrati does...but he grew up in Cleveland, so yet another outsider....proves the point....
My point was there is a shifting (unstable, transient) rather high level of society that comes to Dayton to take jobs with no intention of staying. Their aim is some place else (like Chicago or Los Angeles). Dayton is a "stepping stone" to get there.
Say you buy a house near your folks. You plan to live there. You know the area, not every last detail or all of the people, but enough that getting around for what you want is easy, etc. You have neighbors, one on each side, and so forth. After two months of moving in, you are finally settled enough. Figuring it would be a good idea to get acquainted with your neighbors already and seeing a neighbor outside tinkering with his car you go over and ask if you can help. No, but three weeks later you accidentally see him again and ask if there's any interest in a cook-out. Three months later you seem to be on friendly terms. You know he's from Kansas and his mother-in-law likes to visit. And, six months after that there's a for sale sign in his yard. He got a wonderful job opportunity in Illinois. So, a year later you are back to trying to get acquainted.
CP, I think as far as the entry-level goes, it just isn't here. It isn't period. 95% of jobs here require at least 3-5 years experience, especially at the larger organizations (looking at you Lexis and MW but not just them). This phenomenon in general is a larger issue across the nation's job market. Usually it is 7-10+ years to be truthful. Unless you are an engineer with a co-op in the area that leads to entry-level, are military / retired-military, have a security clearance or have an in on-base somehow (rare at the entry-level), you are moving elsewhere to get a full-time job a BA/BS supports. It's part of why UD grads outside engineers tend to leave. But even the engineers also leave, less they work on the base.
Any creative or business entry-level positions are not here. Most aren't even in Cincinnati. You don't start seeing a larger concentration until you hit Columbus. Chicago is obviously the regional magnet followed by east coasters NYC, Boston and DC.
But the second paragraph I quoted has an issue, at least in my mind. Of course, I'm skewed in Beavercreek because anyone transient is defense, military or contractor. But there is such a concentration of these people (at least in my suburb) that when that happens, it is natural. The neighbor who settles and loses their neighbor in year will have another transient neighbor for the remainder of their 6 months before they move. But this isn't a choice move either. Usually at the defense level (civilian or contractor), you move where the contract takes you. Northrop puts you on a job at AFMCHQ? Then you move to Dayton. They move you to a different contract at Los Angeles AFB (many people come from there because of its space/sat based programs there), then you move to LA.
So, the issue isn't people choosing to move elsewhere, especially at the mid to high level professional level. It's that their job/contract/employer requires it. Most people I've met that come from the coast in those jobs try and stay because the costs are reasonable and they have a cushy salary. If they move, it usually isn't their choice.
Entry-level salaries here (for entry-level positions that are here), meanwhile, are really, really, really low. Even for COL here. That is an issue. Of course, it remains to be seen if these young professionals, whenever they do start a family, decide to take their big-city salaries back here because COL is much more reasonable.
CP, I think as far as the entry-level goes, it just isn't here. It isn't period. 95% of jobs here require at least 3-5 years experience, especially at the larger organizations (looking at you Lexis and MW but not just them). This phenomenon in general is a larger issue across the nation's job market. Usually it is 7-10+ years to be truthful. Unless you are an engineer with a co-op in the area that leads to entry-level, are military / retired-military, have a security clearance or have an in on-base somehow (rare at the entry-level), you are moving elsewhere to get a full-time job a BA/BS supports. It's part of why UD grads outside engineers tend to leave. But even the engineers also leave, less they work on the base.
Any creative or business entry-level positions are not here. Most aren't even in Cincinnati. You don't start seeing a larger concentration until you hit Columbus. Chicago is obviously the regional magnet followed by east coasters NYC, Boston and DC.
But the second paragraph I quoted has an issue, at least in my mind. Of course, I'm skewed in Beavercreek because anyone transient is defense, military or contractor. But there is such a concentration of these people (at least in my suburb) that when that happens, it is natural. The neighbor who settles and loses their neighbor in year will have another transient neighbor for the remainder of their 6 months before they move. But this isn't a choice move either. Usually at the defense level (civilian or contractor), you move where the contract takes you. Northrop puts you on a job at AFMCHQ? Then you move to Dayton. They move you to a different contract at Los Angeles AFB (many people come from there because of its space/sat based programs there), then you move to LA.
So, the issue isn't people choosing to move elsewhere, especially at the mid to high level professional level. It's that their job/contract/employer requires it. Most people I've met that come from the coast in those jobs try and stay because the costs are reasonable and they have a cushy salary. If they move, it usually isn't their choice.
Entry-level salaries here (for entry-level positions that are here), meanwhile, are really, really, really low. Even for COL here. That is an issue. Of course, it remains to be seen if these young professionals, whenever they do start a family, decide to take their big-city salaries back here because COL is much more reasonable.
As always you hit the nail on the head. I'll +1 this entire post, if for no other reason than finding this happen to me personally. That's why I'm still in school now for an engineering degree - few opportunities for a business major here, even if the program is logistics from a Top 25 B-School.
Ah, the exact problem I'm running into right now. I'm a recent grad (May 2014) who's been looking for a job ever since. I didn't get my license until month ago so the job search didn't really start in earnest until November 17...
That said, unless I find a law job or something on base soon - I'll probably wind up taking a job in another city, too.
Best of luck finding a job!
Worse case scenario, GE Aviation in Evendale always seems to be in need of good Contract Administrators....
CP, I think as far as the entry-level goes, it just isn't here. It isn't period. 95% of jobs here require at least 3-5 years experience, especially at the larger organizations (looking at you Lexis and MW but not just them). This phenomenon in general is a larger issue across the nation's job market. Usually it is 7-10+ years to be truthful. Unless you are an engineer with a co-op in the area that leads to entry-level, are military / retired-military, have a security clearance or have an in on-base somehow (rare at the entry-level), you are moving elsewhere to get a full-time job a BA/BS supports. It's part of why UD grads outside engineers tend to leave. But even the engineers also leave, less they work on the base.
Any creative or business entry-level positions are not here. Most aren't even in Cincinnati. You don't start seeing a larger concentration until you hit Columbus. Chicago is obviously the regional magnet followed by east coasters NYC, Boston and DC.
But the second paragraph I quoted has an issue, at least in my mind. Of course, I'm skewed in Beavercreek because anyone transient is defense, military or contractor. But there is such a concentration of these people (at least in my suburb) that when that happens, it is natural. The neighbor who settles and loses their neighbor in year will have another transient neighbor for the remainder of their 6 months before they move. But this isn't a choice move either. Usually at the defense level (civilian or contractor), you move where the contract takes you. Northrop puts you on a job at AFMCHQ? Then you move to Dayton. They move you to a different contract at Los Angeles AFB (many people come from there because of its space/sat based programs there), then you move to LA.
So, the issue isn't people choosing to move elsewhere, especially at the mid to high level professional level. It's that their job/contract/employer requires it. Most people I've met that come from the coast in those jobs try and stay because the costs are reasonable and they have a cushy salary. If they move, it usually isn't their choice.
Entry-level salaries here (for entry-level positions that are here), meanwhile, are really, really, really low. Even for COL here. That is an issue. Of course, it remains to be seen if these young professionals, whenever they do start a family, decide to take their big-city salaries back here because COL is much more reasonable.
You are missing my, point, too. Contributing to the "Downfall of Dayton" is the local company/organization that unnecessarily hires from the outside and which individual subsequently leaves for greater glory. Why, for example, does the City of "X" need to hire someone from kingdom come for job "Y"?
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