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In that case, the homes don't hold up as high a value because of the proximity to crime in Dayton's west side, mostly further down Salem and Main from the Shiloh part of Dayton, but it is none-the-less there. Whether that crime is a real or just imagined concern for most buyers on the southern fringe of Clayton is hard to say. The supposed buffer, IMO, would be the plats between Westbrook and Shiloh Springs Road, with a big open and unused lot for where Salem Mall was at Shiloh, Salem and OH-49. The further south from there down the Salem and Main corridors towards downtown, the worst the areas can become.
The area between Shiloh Springs and Westbrook Road is mostly farmfields and forestland. For the most part, the subdivisions on the Trotwood side of Westbrook don't even hook up with the subdivisons on the Northmont Side of Westbrook. The area is also devoid of sidewalks, and roadsides are difficult for walkers / bike riders, etc.
Quite a few people who live north of Westbrook almost never go south of Westbrook and vice versa.
I'm not entirely sure I'm buying what you're saying about property values, where did you get this info?
I say this because I have 2 coworkers who both live in Clayton, and both bought their houses in the 70k range 3-6 years ago and both are now worth well into the 120s. Or at least that is what other houses in their areas are marketing for.
Prices have bounced back post recession most than they've risen. But even with the bounce back, prices have decline from pre-recession levels.
What I can say about the area:
* The baby boomers who built homes in Clayton mostly sold their homes in the mid-to-late 90's / housing bubble days. (and they mostly left the Northmont area altogether)
* The newcomers to Clayton's older tract subdivisions were mostly middle class blacks who bought at the top of the market AND THEN were hit hard by the housing crash. (likely targeted for subprime mortgages)
* Homes went into foreclosure left and right, selling for $50K-$70K to home-flippers.
* Once the housing crash recovered enough to where at least some people could get mortgages, and once the foreclosed homes were remodeled and able to pass inspection ... You had the price jump from $70K-$120K+.
The homes aren't worth as much as they would be in places like Beavercreek or Centerville. But they've bounced back rather well and they appear to be holding strong.
Last edited by OccasionalCommentary2020; 01-11-2017 at 09:12 PM..
Anyone know where good metrics are for these? Like, are more people moving in compared to moving out, demographics, etc?
... Only Englewood\Clayton area has houses that are worth buying, ...
Let me clarify what you're observing in the Clayton / Englewood market in terms of having the better homes or "the only homes worth buying" (vs. the cheaper tract homes in Vandalia etc)
Back in the Clayton / Englewood heyday - 1960's and throughout the 1980's - Clayton was a mix of white collar middle class / upper middle class / affluent enclave for baby boomers building both starter homes and semi-custom homes. ( in cases where residents were blue collar, they were often highly paid GM / union workers; they were blue collar but "passing" for white collar based on income which was very common theme in GM towns )
So in the Clayton neighborhoods that appear cookie cutter (roughly around Northwood Elementary), you'll often find semi-custom features like all wood floors upstairs, wood framed windows, slate flooring in the entry hallways, fieldstone fireplaces, occasional see-through fireplaces, 4-5 bedrooms, 2000-3000sqft floor plans, larger than average building lots, wooded lots, in-ground pools, and [occasionally] the crumbling remains of tennis courts that haven't been used since 1985 (especially in the neighborhoods feeding into Northwood).
If you go into neighborhoods like Crofton Woods, Savina Hill Estates, and the clusters of 1980's luxury developments around [what used to be] Meadowbrook Country Club, the homes have even more custom features. In these neighborhoods you'll find 3-car garages, multiple fireplaces, walk-out basements, larger bathrooms, more bathrooms, skylights, in-ground pools, etc. In the 80's, a good number of these homes sold in the $300K-$500K range when built new. (this area has a very similar housing stock to what you have around Mad River Rd in Centerville & Miami Twp)
In the rural sections of Clayton (toward Brookville), you had some of the areas oldest farmhouses (c. 1850-1880s), full fledged horse-farm estates, or mini-farm estates which were sometimes just tract homes built on 5-10 acre lots with a horse barn, ponds, woods, etc. (note: most of these homes lack city water / city sewer service)
Englewood Proper was less affluent as a whole, more dead-center middle class and blue collar than Clayton. But there were handful's of upper middle class enclaves with custom or semi-custom homes (Like the enclave North of 40 centered around Scott Drive or just 1-2 street developments like Artistic Court).
Fast forward to the 90's and early 00's:
* many Clayton/Englewood baby boomers were "aging out" of their 2-3 level houses and itching to build custom.
* Clayton/Englewood lacked the custom home caliber developments with the city utility connected, hilly / wooded lots (lots that existed in abundance in Beavercreek,Centerville,Springboro, etc).
* The Dayton metro area had morphed and spread ... with affluent custom home markets further away AND Clayton/Englewood being more isolated than ever (especially after the Salem Mall flopped).
* The bulk of Dayton's Jewish Community moved south. Temples, Synagogues, Community Centers, and schools moved South into Oakwood, Kettering & Centerville. (The fact that Clayton people took over Oakwood and Kettering West of Far Hills should serve as a testament to how much money used to be NW of Dayton)
*
So today, you have Clayton-Englewood - still very nice but no longer affluent like it was in it's heyday. I wouldn't say the area is in a downward cycle (?) because home prices are back up and homes are selling swiftly. But they are bargain priced and many would say undervalued due to the factors mentioned by others above. If anything, I would consider the entire area a niche market - unlike anything else in the Dayton area. I would consider the higher caliber homes costing less than homes in other suburbs a consolation prize for being isolated / on the far NW Side of town.
So does clayton have a chance at growing into affluent area? It seems like they are working on building a lot of shops/places at the i70/main street interconnect. I live right there off garber, I bought a home fully updated, beautiful and such for good price. I am content but curious to see how the future of my area becomes, whether it becomes worst being close to trotwood/dayton, or improves and becomes a little city (doubtful) but I would like to wish the best. Maybe prices will remain decent and the place doesnt implode on itself.
So does clayton have a chance at growing into affluent area? It seems like they are working on building a lot of shops/places at the i70/main street interconnect. I live right there off garber, I bought a home fully updated, beautiful and such for good price. I am content but curious to see how the future of my area becomes, whether it becomes worst being close to trotwood/dayton, or improves and becomes a little city (doubtful) but I would like to wish the best. Maybe prices will remain decent and the place doesnt implode on itself.
Perhaps a bit late of a reply here.
Clayton's 70's-90's riche 'glory days' have passed. The people with real money that were up there in the 70's-90's have mostly moved elsewhere. (provided they're in Dayton (or even alive), those people are mostly in Miami Co, or SE of Dayton today)
That being said, Clayton's not necessarily a bad area. It's very safe compared to what lies immediately to the South. Home prices have bounced back since the crash and prices seem to hold well. It's Centerville-caliber houses sell fast. And it's a great niche market for people not needing or wanting to spend the motherload living in far more congested areas of the metro.
Retailers who locate in Clayton-Englewood around 70 are smart. There's still relatively higher than average incomes and few places nearby to shop (Especially after Salem Mall bottomed out. People NW of town hate driving to Hubertucky). And there's even fewer places to shop for people in adjacent Brookville and West Milton; two areas that have even stronger demographics than Clayton-Englewood.
Anyone know where good metrics are for these? Like, are more people moving in compared to moving out, demographics, etc?
We have been looking for a home for about 6 months now, and it has been very difficult to find something worth buying north of Dayton. Our first choice was Tipp, followed by Vandalia\Butler and then the top half of Huber that don't go to Huber schools. Only Englewood\Clayton area has houses that are worth buying,
However I have heard quite a few stories and worried that moving there is going to be a bad idea. Also, a lot of the houses seem to be on the market a long time, most cases 120+ days, which is also concerning.
Anyone have experience with this that can help me out?
One other thing that comes to mind on this original question:
Clayton and Englewood are two very different places !!!
The Northmont district encompasses of four towns. And each of those towns - and the people in each of those towns - they couldn't be more different. This was true in the 70's-90's and it holds true today, even if the people who built the houses in Clayton and parts of Englewood are no longer around.
I have been here coming up 1.5-2years now and I can say that I am very happy here. The quality of life is really nice, I am 2minutes day from i70, around garber road, yeah the only thing we are missing is real shopping and it keeps me from spending money I dont really need to spend, if I want it, ill go to the mall. I keep seeing more and more buildings getting built up around the area and over in Vandalia across the bridge by the airport massive buildings coming in. Hopefully that means more jobs.
I am content here, was worried when I made that thread but its not too bad. Grocery store is 1 minute from house, got a gym, 7-10 minutes from dayton, 5 mins from trot wood, 10 mins from Brockville, 10 mins from huber. etc I use i70 half the time to go to dayton or miller lane or I use the backroads heath road or Main Street, at night il use the dayton roads because all the lights are green lol.
Not really any complaints really. I utilize the walking trails and parks in the area over by the damn. nice little festivities. I just wish we had a bike trail, I. might start jogging over at the park by Dairy Queen down the hill.
...I have 2 coworkers who both live in Clayton, and both bought their houses in the 70k range 3-6 years ago and both are now worth well into the 120s...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccasionalCommentary2020
...Once the housing crash recovered enough to where at least some people could get mortgages, and once the foreclosed homes were remodeled and able to pass inspection ... You had the price jump from $70K-$120K+.
Somewhat off-topic, but it seems to me, that such sharp rise in housing-prices is only possible if the subject houses were "distressed", and then fixed up. It is highly unlikely that anywhere in the Miami Valley we would have seen natural market forces lift housing-prices so sharply
I can not speak about Clayton/Englewood/NW Dayton in particular, but overall, one hears that housing prices are now finally picking up. Picking up, to what? Will they eventually reach the level at which they hovered circa 2000?
Somewhat off-topic, but it seems to me, that such sharp rise in housing-prices is only possible if the subject houses were "distressed", and then fixed up. It is highly unlikely that anywhere in the Miami Valley we would have seen natural market forces lift housing-prices so sharply
I can not speak about Clayton/Englewood/NW Dayton in particular, but overall, one hears that housing prices are now finally picking up. Picking up, to what? Will they eventually reach the level at which they hovered circa 2000?
Demand is high for move-up homes but people either aren't moving or can't move. That limits homes for move-up buyers, driving prices up amid competing offers, especially among well-performing school districts like Tipp City, Oakwood, Centerville, Northmont, Beavercreek, Bellbrook, etc. Smaller starter homes then drive up in price because Millennials (some of which are already in starter homes, others still in apartments or rentals) are trying to get into the market now that they have jobs and cash to spend. But the current starter home owners can't move up (see above). Couple that with the additional burden of new build homes are in limited supply, in part because of a lack of contractors to keep pace with demand and that drives those prices up as well. Basically, supply is low, demand is high, so prices go up.
It's still a bubble regardless and a huge reason why I left Columbus. It is much worse there. At least KY is cheaper (even though demand there is higher than 8-10 years ago when the recession was in full swing) for housing costs, and property taxes don't kill you as in a number of SW Ohio communities. Schools can be just as good too.
If only that bridge issue could be sorted out!
Edit: Once interests rates start to rise, I expect to see a cooling of most housing markets across the nation. It won't be a crater like '08, but prices will plateau and may drop slightly to more realistic market value levels.
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