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I do agree that the very low cost of living in Dayton and the surrounding areas, housing in particular, can be attractive to young professionals just starting out. Unfortunately, the con of that pro is the severe sticker shock you experience when it comes time to move somewhere else.
I think that's why many people get stuck here. They simply can't afford to leave, and the longer they stick around, the worse it gets.
Well-phrased. A fresh graduate from engineering-school can relocate here, in one or two years save enough money for a down-payment, and at age 24 find him/herself owning a comfy house with 2-car garage on a half-acre in the suburbs... all for $150K (or less). This is nearly impossible in any other metro area in America, that's of comparable size. HOWEVER, 20 years later, that $150K house is still worth $150K. Our frugal young engineer has long ago paid off the mortgage, but his/her home-equity is only - wait for it! - $150K.
If this frugal young engineer gets married and starts a family, costs are indeed low, and logistics simplified. Schools - in some districts - are quite decent. Lots of youth activities, clean air, low traffic, low crime. SUVs lined up outside of the soccer fields. SUVs with stickers of stick-figure families, maybe a sticker with cheerleading-pom-poms, and another with a football. Low COL means that one of the spouses can stay home, that money can be saved for college, for family vacations.
But how would this young engineer locally find a spouse in the first place, if he/she didn't already meet a candidate in college? And what if this engineer doesn't want to have kids? Then so many advantages of this locale are obviated.
The Dayton region mold us into a certain kind of person - and that's not necessarily the kind which we'd care to become.
That pretty much described me. Started my IT career in Dayton. Bought a nice house in suburbia for $106k when I was just 22. Lived in it for 12 years, sold it for $107k. College bud moved and bought in Austin, TX at the same time and the value of his house doubled.
Outside the Portland metro area in WA now and the $250k house we bought just last year has jumped to $320k. Thanks to substantial tax savings here with no state/city income tax and lower property taxes my cost of living here is actually a little cheaper.
There's real opportunity cost in such a stagnant market.
As for the $106K --> $107K appreciation, where did you buy? And did you put anything into the house (was or had it been updated)? I have parents who bought a home for mid 230's in 2000 and if sold today could get 290-310K.
Trying to compare real estate appreciation across a broad metro can be a tricky business. There's schools, neighborhoods, amenities and more to consider that may not match one to one between an Austin and Portland. Or a Savannah and Dayton. I also smell a housing bubble growing over the last year. I doubt a crash would be as bad as the previous one, but I do think one is out there. And, as always, coastal markets are likely to be hit hardest.
And that can leave young families and individuals trying to sell a recently purchased home in the hole and underwater financially. That is less likely to be the case in a lower-inflation market such as Ohio.
Long story short, it depends on the individual and what they want. Some want a family and a home by 30. Others want it by 40, if at all.*
*Note: You can find a spouse or partner in Dayton, Cincinnati or Columbus, even outside college. Anyone who doesn't believe this either doesn't care or isn't trying.
Huber Heights in the "good" part north of I-70. Put in wood flooring throughout. Total rebuild of both bathrooms. Nice built ins. Well maintained/repaired.
A year after I bought I got a job in Cincinnati and wanted to relocate down there but was trapped by negative equity when the market tanked. Got very familiar with the i-75 commute.
And yeah all those other factors are better here too. Much better rated schools. Public infrastructure is in much better shape. Crime is near non-existent in comparison.
Yeah I think there's a small bubble forming as well but as long as "Californians" keep migrating here it's a long way off from deflating and little risk at our price point. What I found really odd was how similar new construction housing costs are. There was a new development going up behind us in Huber where you could get a 3 bed 2.5 bath house for $250k...just like the one we bought here. But the "used" market is insane here where a run down 3 bed 1 bath in need of a total rehab can cost 3-400k.
As for the $106K --> $107K appreciation, where did you buy? And did you put anything into the house (was or had it been updated)? I have parents who bought a home for mid 230's in 2000 and if sold today could get 290-310K.
If one enjoys price-appreciation in one’s house, on account of making improvements, that’s a fine thing indeed… but essentially one is getting paid for one’s labor/investment. The whole point of real estate is be paid for zero labor whatsoever, but instead to enjoy a profit simply from sitting on a piece of property, from having one’s name on the title. This is exactly what happens – over the long term – with stocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer
Trying to compare real estate appreciation across a broad metro can be a tricky business. ...
Indeed, the quip about real-estate being local, can't possibly overstate how "local" local really means. It could be one or two city blocks, let alone the difference between Fairborn and Beavercreek. My own experience is mostly with the countryside around Dayton, which is to say the further reaches of Greene County, Clinton County, etc. And when I say "Dayton", I don't really mean the Oregon District or St. Anne's Hill. I mean Franklin, Troy and Wilmington... or rather, the townships around them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightflyer
Note: You can find a spouse or partner in Dayton, Cincinnati or Columbus, even outside college. Anyone who doesn't believe this either doesn't care or isn't trying.
This discussion more properly belongs in the Relationships forum. But suffice it to say, that the Dayton region offers wonderful opportunities for the traditionally-minded sort of person; for others, less so.
This discussion more properly belongs in the Relationships forum. But suffice it to say, that the Dayton region offers wonderful opportunities for the traditionally-minded sort of person; for others, less so.
Not that it wasn't already brought into the discussion in prior posts to this thread.
Sorry you don't like my answer being in the correct place.
Having been raised in California, spending a slice in the U.K., settled for a decade and a half in Alaska, and now residing in Dayton, I honestly think some of you are selling it short. Everywhere has drawbacks. The appreciation of the coasts and even Anchorage has the drawback of most people being house poor and unable to move from their upside down mortgages when there is a contraction of the local market. Or they can't stay home with their kids because they need dual incomes.
The U.K. is a different kind of miserable in terms of financial pinch, with expensive and mediocre quality housing, expensive food, expensive taxes, AND a bum climate (and I lived in the pretty part of the country in Devon).
Yeah, you can take any equity you manage in San Diego and make one big move with cash ahead, but your schools usually stink even in the nice part of town, it's hot and crowded, and your taxes are enormous if you own a home or make even a halfway decent salary.
Dayton has all the shopping and 90% of the cultural fun of a bigger coastal city, more jobs than a fair number of them, a diversity of neighborhoods and suburbs surrounding it, and it's accessible without being a slave to an enormous loan or a salary most people can't attain. The drugs and poverty do stink. But the coastal areas have that too - and it's a lot more difficult to find work when housing is so overinflated from the wages.
I'm been completely pleased by this town and the surrounding areas. It's good living for a low barrier to entry. Which is exactly what millenials, like myself, need. Yes, it means you'll struggle to move to a more expensive city without a job first, but that's true even moving laterally. Picking up and moving without a commensurate wage for the area is always going to be a dice roll. But Dayton has a lot of fun, variety, affordability, and mobility (drive six to eight hours in any direction - SO much to do!) going for it, and an economy that has proven surprisingly resilient in the face of the manufacturing declines around the region. It got hit hard, but it's adapting really well to my eye as someone coming from a lot of geographic diversity. It might be hard to see from the inside, but the grass isn't always greener in the bigger, flashier city with the higher wages. They have a dark side when it comes to actually living comfortably any time before you're 38
Having been raised in California, spending a slice in the U.K., settled for a decade and a half in Alaska, and now residing in Dayton, I honestly think some of you are selling it short. Everywhere has drawbacks. The appreciation of the coasts and even Anchorage has the drawback of most people being house poor and unable to move from their upside down mortgages when there is a contraction of the local market. Or they can't stay home with their kids because they need dual incomes.
The U.K. is a different kind of miserable in terms of financial pinch, with expensive and mediocre quality housing, expensive food, expensive taxes, AND a bum climate (and I lived in the pretty part of the country in Devon).
... It might be hard to see from the inside, but the grass isn't always greener in the bigger, flashier city with the higher wages. They have a dark side when it comes to actually living comfortably any time before you're 38 ...
Taste is of course subjective. I prefer a mild climate, hovering around temperatures where one can walk briskly in a business-suit without sweating, yet never need gloves or a heavy overcoat. So for me, the English climate is ideal, and the American Midwest, rather less so. The UK is indeed expensive, with high taxes and comparatively low salaries for professionals. But that’s true throughout most of the developed world. The US, whether in NYC or rural Mississippi, has comparatively low taxes, and good opportunities for well-educated people to earn high salaries.
Dayton, or at least its various suburbs, is consummately suited to family life. Schools (depending on the district) are good. Communities are bursting with soccer-fields, indoor volleyball courts and the like. The local community college, Sinclair, is excellent. Traffic is light, and there are plenty of highways and state-routes passing through the area. With the low cost of housing, the grandparents can relocate nearby, offering free babysitting. And one of the spouses can stay home, shepherding the kids to their various activities, while the other spouse earns a salary sufficient to afford a house, two cars, and a modicum of retirement-savings. But Dayton isn’t as well suited to couples without kids, or singles who aren’t interested in having kids. Dayton isn’t well-suited to persons who aren’t well-suited to mainstream American life.
Housing prices of course oscillate, and people in Phoenix or Las Vegas doubtless have horror-stories of mistimed purchases and upside-down loans. But what of the long-term? What of the young professional who relocates for career-purposes, buys a house at 25, and stays there for 50 years? Oscillations will have damped out, and long-term trends emerge. In the Midwest, that long-term trend is stagnation.
The Sunbelt is not sustainable. What natural disasters won't destroy, water shortages will. Sure, Dayton is better for families...there's nothing wrong with that. If singles and the childless grow bored with Dayton's brewpub scene and handful of clubs and ethnic restaurants, they can always move to Columbus. I agree with most everything Schmooky posted; why would I pay $1800/mo to rent a house in Maryland or Oregon what I pay in less than $600 in mortgage in the Dayton area? I can shop at the same Trader Joe's and drink similar IPA here as I would there.
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