Why I'm leaving Dayton. (Cincinnati, Warren: renting, crimes, how much)

[tightline]

Originally Posted by Billy from Dayton

tightline is a scaredy cat - BOOO! Afraid of the Dayton Mall? Geeze, talk about sheltered! Hey tightline, if you ever do wish to come downtown again for whatever reason, let me know - I'll be happy to let my two year old daughter escort you so all of the scary people don't hurt you...

Ding-Danget guys i aint scared LOL, but sometimes the truth aint pretty, or politically correct. Pull on your head till you hear a pop, that will be the sound of it coming out of your butt. Then take a look around.

[Ohioan58]

Tightline is way exaggerating supposed dangers, but the politically incorrect reality is that the Dayton Mall area is sliding downscale. Look at all the vacancies around the Mall in strip centers that just five years ago were red roaring hot retail properties. There is still enough activity that this is not readily apparent but it is happening. The Greene stripped away a lot of the retail action down there. The Austin Pike interchange area is going to suck the remaining marginal retail out of the Mall area. We're going to see what happened to the eastern Dorothy Lane & Wilmington Pike area of Kettering happen to the DM area within the next 5-10 years.

[tightline]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Tightline is way exaggerating supposed dangers, but the politically incorrect reality is that the Dayton Mall area is sliding downscale. Look at all the vacancies around the Mall in strip centers that just five years ago were red roaring hot retail properties. There is still enough activity that this is not readily apparent but it is happening. The Greene stripped away a lot of the retail action down there. The Austin Pike interchange area is going to suck the remaining marginal retail out of the Mall area. We're going to see what happened to the eastern Dorothy Lane & Wilmington Pike area of Kettering happen to the DM area within the next 5-10 years.

I do that sometimes when i get worked up - sorry

[darthredskin]

I find it a bit odd that they would build/develop things that would take away from the economy of the area...I mean really the Greene is nice and all but why build two...wait 3 (Including Fairfield Commons) within 15 miles of each other? It's sad.

[Billy from Dayton]

The Dayton Mall's slide is due mostly from retail/restaurant oversaturation caused by The Greene, and not because they have bus service.

Ironic that the same people who complain about "those people" who come in on the bus, and who fight to keep buses out of the burbs, are the same people that then complain about those "laze people" in Dayton that don't work. Folks, if lower income people that can't afford cars (most living in the city) can't find transportation to the service jobs they're most likely to be able to get (that have mostly moved out of the city), how do you expect them to get to work? No, I'm not getting all left-wing on you here; I don't like lazy punks who are capable of finding a job but choose to live off of my tax dollars any more than the rest of you. But I find it irrational to complain about all of the crime and poverty in the city and use that as a reason to have nothing to do with the city, all while expecting the city to house all of the poor people AND keep all social service activities concentrated in the city AND on top of that keep public transportation out of the suburbs.

Yes - the overwhelming majority of people who ride the bus are simply trying to get to and from work. This isn't about being politically correct - it is about having a clear perspective rather than one clouded by your own ignorance.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by darthredskin

I find it a bit odd that they would build/develop things that would take away from the economy of the area...I mean really the Greene is nice and all but why build two...wait 3 (Including Fairfield Commons) within 15 miles of each other? It's sad.

A metro area of Dayton's size probably could support 2-3 malls. The problem that you so rightly pointed out is that all 3 of the large malls/towncenters/shopping centers are all on the south and east side along I-675. Actually, there's four, as there is Cross Point Center at the OH48 exit. It's a problem of oversaturation and there is no disputing it.

One could then say that it was I-675 that killed much of dowtown, and even the northwest side, where a limited access freeway is absent. Jeffery pointed this pretty well in another thread with a link to a blog post on the whole subject.

Furthermore, another developer wanted to build another mall at Wilmington Pike and I-675! This stalled due to annexation battles in court, the original developer going bankrupt, and the recession. As much as I think sprawl's negative sides can be overhyped sometimes, this was something I did not want to see happen.

So back to the original thread, Why I am leaving/left Dayton. I left for school. As some may notice, my location still says both Dayton and Columbus, but that is because my parents still live there and I travel back and forth frequently. As much as I loved (and sometimes hated out of boredom) Dayton and its metro, I could major in something I like and enjoy at the school that had the 4th best program in the country.

I find Dayton and it's suburbs a great place to settle down and raise a family. It is not so much a great place for a 20-30 year old. Then there is the whole job aspect. I'd love to work in the defense industry, but why take a job in Dayton when I can go back to DC for some time? Then I could come back to Dayton (which is now the HQ for NASIC). However, if I don't end up in the defense industry, its highly unlikely I'll ever return. Ohio may still be an option with jobs at retailers (site selection, locational analysis career work) such as Macy's and Limited Brands.

Don't get me wrong, I love Dayton and Ohio, but if it can't support me, or my future family, I have no problem leaving. Sorry if anyone found that rant a little too long, but I hope it does help someone in considering Dayton or even Ohio.

[Billy from Dayton]

Leaving Dayton because of lack of job opportunities is a perfectly good reason to leave, and if I was in that situation then I'd probably be gone too. As an entrepreneur that has seen some successes (and some failures), I do find Dayton an easier place to take risks. But if I was an employee at a company with a butts-in-seats culture (I'm guessing that culture is prevalent here) then yeah - I'd be ready to leave Dayton.

As for Dayton not being good for somebody in his/her 20's - I always thought that to be the case. I moved here in 2001 at 30 years old and just married. I don't think I'd like it here as a 20-something single.

[darthredskin]

@wrightflyer- I guess thats another reason Dayton really doesn't suit me well being in my lower 20's. I also agree the region could support 2-3 malls if spread out and not secluded to one area.

[willabee]

Originally Posted by darthredskin

I also agree the region could support 2-3 malls if spread out and not secluded to one area.

These malls are located where they are because of favorable demographics that site search executives use to ensure the mall's success. Some big box retailers have had success locating on the northern end of Salem Avenue. Along those same lines consider the death of the Salem Mall as well as the retail vacuum along Salem Avenue. Also consider the high concentration of dollar/discount stores all over east and south east Dayton. Again, demographics.

As for Dayton the northern section is heavy industry, Old North Dayton is run down and you likely won't see development of any sort in McCook Field. West and East Dayton have been covered above, and south west Dayton is vastly underdeveloped and then you get into Moraine. All that is really left that could support shopping malls is the suburban areas where we currently have mall saturation.

[Daytonnatian]

^The northside COULD support a mall, but it would be a huge drain on the region.

Anyways, I wouldn't be too worried about Dayton Mall just yet. As of right now, their occupancy rate is 95%