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dialing 911 is for police emergencies, you didn't have one. He didn't do anything illegal, thats why the cops do nothing. It's not against the law to be big and black and ask people for help.
A police officer should be expected to at least ask someone to move on if they are intimidating another..The word there should be intimidating not having anything to do with size or race.
dialing 911 is for police emergencies, you didn't have one. He didn't do anything illegal, thats why the cops do nothing. It's not against the law to be big and black and ask people for help.
No one said it was illegal for him to be 6'4" and black. That was a description of a suspect.
And it is illegal to stand between a woman and an exit and harass her for money and help.
Which is why the 911 call was made.
Skeddy, I disagree, asking once for a hand out and I would say no foul. But, once the person says no and the vagrant continues to ask and follow the person, I would say that falls under harassment. Further, you're right 911 is for emergencies but in this instants an officer should have been sent. It isn't the dispatchers job to determine when and when not to send an officer. If someone feels that someone's behavior is aggressive or threatening a 911 call is certainly plausible.
The poor woman I helped was very scared. She caught my attention when she was entering the front door of the PO. She was speaking to the man that later followed her in. Saying that's all she could tell him, she had nothing to give, etc...
The door closed behind her. I knew who she had to be talking to because he was right there on the bench near the door she'd just entered.
Then the door opens and its him. He's looking around, goes to that first area where post boxes are on the right, because he saw the woman there. She was at the table standing behind it. He stood on the other side across from her. He had the ability to block her exit should she have chosen to depart around the table to either side.
Keep in mind the PO was closed. All doors that usually are open for the public to access PO workers were locked.
No one would have stood to hear a scream should she have been able to get one out.
He keeps telling her he knows she can help him, she's got to have something, etc... She very nervously says no, she doesn't know what to tell him. The doorway out of that area was behind him. So as he stood at that table with his back to that doorway, able to block her exit around either side of the table if she hoped to move to that door, he was a perceivable threat.
I'm 5'41/2". She only came to my shoulder when I walked to her to help her navigate around and away from him. My husband is 6'1" and I know this guy was well taller than what my husband is just matching our height as I approached him to save her.
He also talks to himself after he asks for help in this manner. Other women that were younger avoided him and left quickly. He never said a word to them when they were inside. Nor did he speak to me after I'd said I had no money when I first saw him sitting on the bench outside.
So he appears to target for this type of aggressive behavior, judging from this woman and his behaviors toward her, elderly small women.
When he saw me on the cell phone he left the area quickly. Walking to the Court street/State street side of the post office-library parking lot.
This thread was posted to warn of his behaviors if you meet the certain criteria of that which he seemed to target in this one woman.
As I said, younger women he did not bother in this way. And no men entered in this time to see how he'd respond to them.
A police officer should be expected to at least ask someone to move on if they are intimidating another..The word there should be intimidating not having anything to do with size or race.
Size and race and his clothing, which hasn't yet been mentioned, are a suspect description. Anyone that has business in downtown Dover is likely to see this man.
That's his opening line. He has a high pitched voice that doesn't deliver a very sharp clear speech, when he says, "can you help me?"
These are identifiers to help the public if they see such a vagrant downtown . And most especially if one is elderly, female, and thinking of going to the PO when it is closed.
If I see him again I'll take his picture and upload it to this thread.
It would be irresponsible of me to post a thread alerting of aggressive panhandling, as someone described this and I agree with that description, and not include the description of the aggressive panhandler. Being there are more than one person in the downtown area asking for money as panhandlers.
Had I simply said, there's this aggressive panhandler at the Dover Post Office .....
People would have considered that vague. And rightly so. *edited to add* And since I telephoned police and gave them a description it was only right to include that in this thread. Had I telephoned police and said, there's a guy being aggressive with women at Dover Post Office, they'd have asked me to describe him.
I've encountered him multiple times downtown. Once at the Wells Fargo bank on bank lane just off State street.
This is the first time I've seen him become aggressive toward a person. And it is the first time I've seen him venture as far as the Post Office.
Last edited by Missing Turtles; 10-18-2016 at 05:23 PM..
If I were in the OP shoes, I'd get in the car, ride 4 blocks West to S. Queen Street where the Dover City Police Dept. is. The police would go over to the post office and see what's going on. That's a 5 minute drive from the post office, is much quicker than calling 911 and makes much more sense.
On another note, the City Library is on that same block and there have been reports of homeless people sleeping in the library with an open book in front of them.
As it was the OP, me, got in her car and drove up Loockerman street, over State street, and on the other side of that intersection witnessed and as stated in the OP, at least 4 city of Dover police standing on the left side of the street. In front of a merchants shop they were and just across from the entrance to bank lane. Another officer was on the right of the street near the alley before bank lane. His car parked in the alley he was talking to some what looked like skater kids.
By then the suspect had walked briskly away from the area, through the back library parking lot and toward King street. He disappeared after that. I made the turn down bank lane to see if he was hovering near the Wells Fargo bank there so as to alert those police on Loockerman. But he wasn't there or he hadn't arrived yet.
I have a feeling the dispatcher didn't even put in the call. Because those police all convening at Loockerman street weren't acting like they had received a call. Instead the large group were talking with people they were already serving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podo944
I understand the sentiment, but in reality it's about behavior. I have the feeling the OP would have called the police if the same behavior was observed of a white dude doing the same. Black or white or whatever, continuing to ask, following them around and not taking no for an answer is harassment and intimidation and it is not okay.
You're spot on.I called police because of the aggressive behavior this person showed toward an elderly woman. His description in this thread was a matter of public service.
As I said before, it would be irresponsible to simply say, there's an aggressive panhandler in downtown Dover!
And?
There are a lot of panhandlers in downtown Dover.
Who should someone watch out for that is particularly aggressive and thus warranted this public service thread posting here?
We gotta get out of this nonsense PC head space thinking we can't describe people and how they appear because that is wrong. No, what is wrong is a giant of a man blocking the exit of elderly women because they're not giving him any money when he asks for it. That's what is wrong.
Years ago NYC considered making it illegal to use descriptions that entailed race, skin color, religious adornment, to describe suspects for any crime reported to police. Because of fear it was "insensitive".
That's balderdash.
If someone is a suspect in a crime, they're already offensive! Allegedly! Describing them so that police don't roust innocent people and can have a fair chance of finding the exact person that allegedly offended, when there are complaints now about a high population of innocent people in our jails and prisons, isn't insensitive! It's common sense. And it can help reduce the chance of an innocent person being arrested because police weren't allowed to "hear" victims describe exactly what that offender looked like.
For too long the criminal justice system has appeared to protect criminals and not victims. Claiming a description of a suspect is wrong isn't going to stop that offense any time soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania
They are there during the day, and then they go home like the rest of us. I once called the non-emergency number on a weekend. No one was there. It was 911 or nothing. The situation wasn't critical. I was just calling to ask what I could do about the guy on my lawn. He dozed off for a while, woke up, and finally left. Life in the suburbs isn't always boring.
The former neighbors were distributing kiddie porn and drugs. I had the safest house on the block for a couple of years because there was a car parked in front of my house at least once a week. The officer was waiting for one of them to leave.
That's troubling that the PO is empty on the weekends. I remember when the PO was open around the clock. Then homeless started appearing in our city. And during one winter they started going into the PO to sleep. Scared people who worked graveyard and stopped by to get their mail half to death. So that is when the facility started locking the lobby.
Now apparently this guy is one homeless vagrant that knows there is no one there on the weekend. That's when this happened. And he's scoping out elderly women to intimidate into giving him money to basically let them leave.
Another example of people asking the police to "fix" societal ills. What do you want the police to do with the countless numbers of people all over the country bumming around asking for money/help?
Seen my share of panhandlers thru the years. Working in south Philly I came across quite a few that were downright dangerous. Often they ask for money just to size you up. Many of these people are more messed up than you think. Much extreme mental illness with this group. That is generally the primary reason they are on the street.
Heck yes, call the police. Often for a police non-emergeny I use 911 because I have no way of quickly coming up with a telephone number for the police. I simply tell the 911 operator "this is not an emergency but please concect me with the police - because..." This has worked for me every time.
Missing Turtles - Thanks for looking out for this woman. If she would have been pushed or knocked to the ground she could have been badly hurt or worse.
The police are here for public safety. That is their primary mission. This is clearly a public safety issue.
I can assure you the police are aware of this fellow, yet he and many other beggars continue to roam the streets begging for money. The reason is there's really nothing they can do to him as long as he leaves when they tell him to. Beggars just return the next day or next hour. Loitering conviction results in a fine in Delaware, he's not paying any fine and he's not going to jail. He just goes back to begging. This is not a police problem. Being homeless is not against the law.
Skeddy, again I have to disagree, it is a police issue. I'm sure you have heard of the broken window theory in policing and quality of life offenses. If you research a little you will see how this was handled in New York City and other places. Particularly in NY with the window washers when Giuliano was there. Bottom line you issue a summons, if they don't go to court or pay fine a warrant for coc is issued and their arrested. After a few of these they get the message to move on.
The poor woman I helped was very scared. She caught my attention when she was entering the front door of the PO. She was speaking to the man that later followed her in. Saying that's all she could tell him, she had nothing to give, etc...
The door closed behind her. I knew who she had to be talking to because he was right there on the bench near the door she'd just entered.
Then the door opens and its him. He's looking around, goes to that first area where post boxes are on the right, because he saw the woman there. She was at the table standing behind it. He stood on the other side across from her. He had the ability to block her exit should she have chosen to depart around the table to either side.
Keep in mind the PO was closed. All doors that usually are open for the public to access PO workers were locked.
No one would have stood to hear a scream should she have been able to get one out.
He keeps telling her he knows she can help him, she's got to have something, etc... She very nervously says no, she doesn't know what to tell him. The doorway out of that area was behind him. So as he stood at that table with his back to that doorway, able to block her exit around either side of the table if she hoped to move to that door, he was a perceivable threat.
I'm 5'41/2". She only came to my shoulder when I walked to her to help her navigate around and away from him. My husband is 6'1" and I know this guy was well taller than what my husband is just matching our height as I approached him to save her.
He also talks to himself after he asks for help in this manner. Other women that were younger avoided him and left quickly. He never said a word to them when they were inside. Nor did he speak to me after I'd said I had no money when I first saw him sitting on the bench outside.
So he appears to target for this type of aggressive behavior, judging from this woman and his behaviors toward her, elderly small women.
When he saw me on the cell phone he left the area quickly. Walking to the Court street/State street side of the post office-library parking lot.
This thread was posted to warn of his behaviors if you meet the certain criteria of that which he seemed to target in this one woman.
As I said, younger women he did not bother in this way. And no men entered in this time to see how he'd respond to them.
Missing Turtles, it's good that you happened to be there and alert. If not, who knows what he might have done to that elderly woman. Your initial post probably threw people off because it seemed that your description of this man was what you deemed most threatening instead of his behavior. Once you went further into detail about what he was doing, then the dots connected more.
For so long in our country, just being Black was enough to be labeled: big, scary, threatening, criminal, and things of this nature. This was regardless if the person was into criminal activity or not. This phenomenon that seems to plagued primarily the minds of many Whites as opposed to any other group of people has always been mentioned by Black speakers at predominately Afrocentric events/symposiums but has reached mainstream awareness thanks to groups such as BLM who have raised hell about it with the rise in police shootings.
Upon reading your intial post, it appeared that yours was exhibit A of the big Black scary man syndrome. However, your subsequent posts make it clear that his aggressive, harrassing behavior was scary regardless if he was big or not and regardless if he was Black or not. Truth be told, regardless of his size, the fact that he is a man would could potentially go up against a woman physically, that is a threat to most women because he would overpower them easily in hand to hand combat. The fact that he is Black is relevent in this case in the sense that anytime there is a person that people (or primarily women) need to be on alert about, their description becomes very important. Let the naysayers kick rocks.
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Good you were there
