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Yeah but the chair does no good if they cannot find a dentist to come in and work for free. Only deadbeats show up at a hospital for dental care, because they could not afford it on the outside. If it was profitable, somebody would already be doing it.
When I was 35 yrs old, I made at least 3 times more money than you make (largely due to the fact I was actually talented at what I do & SMART enough to do something where I could manipulate my overhead, to zero, quite legally, thank you). But then I got a pain in my side. Stupid Dr's did 3 invasive procedures & found nothing, they said I was young and in perfect shape. I insisted they remove my ovary, against the Dr's better judgement, he finally did it. There were cysts, abdominal adhesions (painful like a kidney stone, but CONSTANT pain for 3 years!) and yes, CANCER, tumors everywhere. Why didn't they see them before? They were on the OTHER side of my ovary! I guess they don't teach that in medical school, that ovaries have 2 sides!! Then I had to have back surgery, but I was too weak and so not a good candidate. Now I have multiple health issues, and CANCER again, but I have no insurance. According to you, because I didn't have the foresight to see that I would get ovarian cancer at 35 yrs old while in perfect health, I am a DEADBEAT. I now have a dental abcess that is quite extensive from the last CT scan of my brain, & it's currently infected & has me in great distress & I have to come across YOUR BS? You've got to be kidding me. My best friend is in insurance, my X-husband was a Dr (he's the one who insisted that I insist to have my ovary removed, although he wasn't GYN & lives in another state), if there was a way to get me insurance with pre-existing like cancer & at any kind of reasonable amount, he would have found it! I'm waiting for disability, a crime also to you, I'm sure.
People like you think the only value someone has is how much money they have...does that mean I was valuable before, but now I'm not? I'm inherently less valuable as a human being because I can no longer pay my medical bills, etc, that's WHAT YOU SAID. I would be a multi-millionaire by now....then I would be valuable in the eyes of someone like yourself...that's such a sick way to think, worse than being deadbeat because you've been sick for 10 years and seeking help in the ER for a dental abcess. You actually come across as pathological and definitely a pathological attention seeking liar. On the other hand, REAL people still look up to me and love me because I was never JUST about the money when I was rolling in it, yes I was/am heartbroken I am hurt and sick and can no longer work, but not for your reasons. You should be grateful if you get paid AT ALL, because I guarantee you will end up worse off than I am, although I already know you are, everyone will know. People like you disgust me. You can't even be helpful on a board, how could you possibly help anyone in life? People come here looking for answers and help, & they have to listen to YOU rant about your money problems! One day you'll be in a place where money has no value, what will you do then? Nothing to judge other's by, nothing to base your self-esteem on, just NOTHING. FYI, I can guarantee you that I did more more good in a single day, no HOUR, in the 25 yrs I worked than you will in your entire life. I loved my job & would have done it for free if I didn't have myself & a child to support. I took NOTHING from my X-husband, because for me it isn't about getting as much money in any way possible, it's about making other people's lives better while being totally autonomous, 2 concepts far behind your grasp. Has a child ever said they want to be like you when they grow up? Or be what you are? That's permanent value, money is fleeting, it comes and goes, but having a 4 yr old say they want to do the same thing that you do for a living when they grow up, that they want to be like you, that's invaluable. That's what my daughter (adopted) said on her film showed at preschool graduation when asked what she wanted be when she grew up last week. Even though I haven't properly worked since she was born. My son is grown and young but so much wiser than you are. You have a lot to learn, but I'm pretty sure you're one of those people who remain worthless and never grow.
For anyone who might read this rant, I apologize, but not for a single word for the worthless human being I am addressing, and he/she (probably he) is worthless, and will remain that way. You couldn't guess what I did for a living if the largest lottery of all time was at stake, & you wouldn't have to worry about getting paid last, if fact, could quit, there's clearly no love lost for the job. Why? Because you are so narrow-minded and simple, in addition to being worthless, if you can't see the worth in other's, you'll never find it in yourself....hint
Don't lie, doc. I know you collected that $45 co-pay for a filling, pocketed it, and used it to pay for your shiny new boat!
To the person you responded to, not bart
What a idiot! You went into a career for the love of money, did not research it or know ANYTHING about business, and now you have the audacity to complain about payroll and the associated taxes, monies, etc? What a IDIOT! How long did you spend in school learning about something you don't even like in order to find out you actually have to know something about BUSINESS! I've seen a lot of people make that mistake, but I wouldn't go around admitting you're a idiot out loud. I had a successful business by the time I was 25 yrs old...& come from self-employed families, so I guess I don't understand people that have no business sense to the point of being absolute idiots! How did you think the employees would get paid? Or did you think you wouldn't need them? You didn't know you had to pay the employee's first when you're the boss...wow, I don't think it's a understatement to say you are a total idiot, as someone who comes from self-employed people in all kinds of businesses, including setting up medical AND dental practices,lol.:rolle yes:
To the person you responded to, not bart
What a idiot! You went into a career for the love of money, did not research it or know ANYTHING about business, and now you have the audacity to complain about payroll and the associated taxes, monies, etc? What a IDIOT! How long did you spend in school learning about something you don't even like in order to find out you actually have to know something about BUSINESS! I've seen a lot of people make that mistake, but I wouldn't go around admitting you're a idiot out loud. I had a successful business by the time I was 25 yrs old...& come from self-employed families, so I guess I don't understand people that have no business sense to the point of being absolute idiots! How did you think the employees would get paid? Or did you think you wouldn't need them? You didn't know you had to pay the employee's first when you're the boss...wow, I don't think it's a understatement to say you are a total idiot, as someone who comes from self-employed people in all kinds of businesses, including setting up medical AND dental practices,lol.:rolle yes:
Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about. You need to read my posts more carefully before you comment on them. What makes you think I didn't know these aspects of business? My post was simply pointing these issues out to others who do not understand the business world as well as you. I'm happy you are such an astute business woman.
When I was 35 yrs old, I made at least 3 times more money than you make (largely due to the fact I was actually talented at what I do & SMART enough to do something where I could manipulate my overhead, to zero, quite legally, thank you). But then I got a pain in my side. Stupid Dr's did 3 invasive procedures & found nothing, they said I was young and in perfect shape. I insisted they remove my ovary, against the Dr's better judgement, he finally did it. There were cysts, abdominal adhesions (painful like a kidney stone, but CONSTANT pain for 3 years!) and yes, CANCER, tumors everywhere. Why didn't they see them before? They were on the OTHER side of my ovary! I guess they don't teach that in medical school, that ovaries have 2 sides!! Then I had to have back surgery, but I was too weak and so not a good candidate. Now I have multiple health issues, and CANCER again, but I have no insurance. According to you, because I didn't have the foresight to see that I would get ovarian cancer at 35 yrs old while in perfect health, I am a DEADBEAT. I now have a dental abcess that is quite extensive from the last CT scan of my brain, & it's currently infected & has me in great distress & I have to come across YOUR BS? You've got to be kidding me. My best friend is in insurance, my X-husband was a Dr (he's the one who insisted that I insist to have my ovary removed, although he wasn't GYN & lives in another state), if there was a way to get me insurance with pre-existing like cancer & at any kind of reasonable amount, he would have found it! I'm waiting for disability, a crime also to you, I'm sure.
People like you think the only value someone has is how much money they have...does that mean I was valuable before, but now I'm not? I'm inherently less valuable as a human being because I can no longer pay my medical bills, etc, that's WHAT YOU SAID. I would be a multi-millionaire by now....then I would be valuable in the eyes of someone like yourself...that's such a sick way to think, worse than being deadbeat because you've been sick for 10 years and seeking help in the ER for a dental abcess. You actually come across as pathological and definitely a pathological attention seeking liar. On the other hand, REAL people still look up to me and love me because I was never JUST about the money when I was rolling in it, yes I was/am heartbroken I am hurt and sick and can no longer work, but not for your reasons. You should be grateful if you get paid AT ALL, because I guarantee you will end up worse off than I am, although I already know you are, everyone will know. People like you disgust me. You can't even be helpful on a board, how could you possibly help anyone in life? People come here looking for answers and help, & they have to listen to YOU rant about your money problems! One day you'll be in a place where money has no value, what will you do then? Nothing to judge other's by, nothing to base your self-esteem on, just NOTHING. FYI, I can guarantee you that I did more more good in a single day, no HOUR, in the 25 yrs I worked than you will in your entire life. I loved my job & would have done it for free if I didn't have myself & a child to support. I took NOTHING from my X-husband, because for me it isn't about getting as much money in any way possible, it's about making other people's lives better while being totally autonomous, 2 concepts far behind your grasp. Has a child ever said they want to be like you when they grow up? Or be what you are? That's permanent value, money is fleeting, it comes and goes, but having a 4 yr old say they want to do the same thing that you do for a living when they grow up, that they want to be like you, that's invaluable. That's what my daughter (adopted) said on her film showed at preschool graduation when asked what she wanted be when she grew up last week. Even though I haven't properly worked since she was born. My son is grown and young but so much wiser than you are. You have a lot to learn, but I'm pretty sure you're one of those people who remain worthless and never grow.
For anyone who might read this rant, I apologize, but not for a single word for the worthless human being I am addressing, and he/she (probably he) is worthless, and will remain that way. You couldn't guess what I did for a living if the largest lottery of all time was at stake, & you wouldn't have to worry about getting paid last, if fact, could quit, there's clearly no love lost for the job. Why? Because you are so narrow-minded and simple, in addition to being worthless, if you can't see the worth in other's, you'll never find it in yourself....hint
Wow. I simply said people with dental problems in the ER do not pay for their dentistry. And from that post learn all this about me?? You're a smart business woman (by your own assessment), but you think it would be better business decision for me to work without getting paid? Your rant is someone with an axe to grind (mostly about unrelated issues) looking for a place to grind it.
Last edited by toofache32; 12-05-2015 at 10:16 PM..
Yeah but the chair does no good if they cannot find a dentist to come in and work for free. Only deadbeats show up at a hospital for dental care, because they could not afford it on the outside. If it was profitable, somebody would already be doing it.
Really, is that your position? Or could it be that a person is in pain, in an unfamiliar town - maybe on vacation -, and is unable to get an appointment with a local dentist that only works 3.5 days/week?
Here's a dental pledge from Virginia Commonwealth University School of Dentistry - I don't see anything in the pledge referring to profitability!
The Dentist’s Pledge
I, as a member of the dental profession, will keep this pledge and these stipulations.
I understand and accept that my primary responsibility is to my patients, and I shall dedicate myself to render, to the best of my ability, the highest standard of oral health care and to maintain a relationship of respect and confidence.
Therefore, let all come to me safe in the knowledge that their total health and well-being are my first considerations.
I shall accept the responsibility that, as a professional, my competence rests on continuing the attainment of knowledge and skill in the arts and sciences of dentistry.
I acknowledge my obligation to support and sustain the honor and integrity of the profession, and to conduct myself in all endeavors such that I shall merit the respect of patients, colleagues and my community.
I further commit myself to the betterment of my community for the benefit of all of society.
I shall faithfully observe the Principles of Ethics and Code of Professional Conduct set forth by the profession.
All this I pledge with pride in my commitment to the profession and the public which it serves.
That pledge does not say they will work for free. Who else here works for free? I get called in to my hospitals all the time and treat patients there but I have NEVER had a patient pay me. So they get sent to collections. This is why I am now in negotiations with 2 of my hospitals to pay me to take call or I'm leaving. My group is the last one in town that still puts up with this for some reason. It's amazing how so many people expect others to work for free.
In "higher paid professions" such as dentistry, social work, medicine, law, etc, it is not uncommon to do a certain amount of pro-bono work.
I can raise my hand and say that I have worked "for free" doing psychotherapy on more than one occasion.
I agree that the best solution is to be paid directly by the hospital.
You are clearly not adhering to the oath above and that is what is bothering people here. It's repeated in the oath to put your patients' care above all else. You are putting clearly putting money before all else.
I relate to the comment a few above yours about being out of town and having to go to urgent care for tooth/jaw problems. I paid up front via credit card. I could've gone to ER and not paid up front. In retrospect, I wish I had but not because of the payment. Urgent care in the area I visited was a joke. MD did not ever ask my medical history before giving me a script for steroids which triggered an arthritic flare. I had never been on oral steroids before. And I'm not sure if the antibiotics she prescribed were merely prophylactic or if she just didn't listen to me when I told her I didn't have an infection and that it was TMJ causing the pain. She sure didn't listen to me when I was literally crying from pain asking for an opiate based pain reliever (something I have never done in all my years on this planet) and told me to take 1,600mg of ibuprofen and 1,000mg of Tylenol daily. Great advice which is why I was already doing it for 6 days prior to my visit as my chart indicated.
I purchase the healthcare for patients I have never met several times each week, yet I am called selfish? The patients don't pay me but I still pay my staff. It costs me almost $300 per hour for all my staff. Should I make my staff work for free also when those patients are seen? Will you guys accuse them of being greedy when they refuse? There is no "oath" or law requiring anyone to work for free. I provide charity care adding up to tens of thousands of dollars each year, but you guys tell me I don't provide it enough. Unbelievable. If I'm the one doing the charity work then I'M the one that gets to choose who gets it.
That pledge does not say they will work for free. Who else here works for free? I get called in to my hospitals all the time and treat patients there but I have NEVER had a patient pay me. So they get sent to collections. This is why I am now in negotiations with 2 of my hospitals to pay me to take call or I'm leaving. My group is the last one in town that still puts up with this for some reason. It's amazing how so many people expect others to work for free.
Never indicated that I feel that people should work for free. However, profit can be interpreted differently. If you pay yourself a salary of $2,000,000 (aka salary expense) and still want a profit, well I might raise my eyebrows on that one.
I know that MD's (orthopedic surgeons specifically) that come in on emergency room calls expect to "keep" that patient that he saw in the ER. First hand knowledge of someone in an orthopedic surgeons office that told a prospective patient that he would not see him - that he must go the the Orthp. surgeon he saw in the ER - this was after the patient came in and saw him and had to pay for the consultation. I guess the ER is used as a "feeder" business?
Finally, most people would love to have a dentist that even elicits some aspect of the dental oath previously posted. That is not what most are seeing, especially when you go into an appointment and the dentist states after doing an exam "No money for me here", and walks out.
I know that MD's (orthopedic surgeons specifically) that come in on emergency room calls expect to "keep" that patient that he saw in the ER. First hand knowledge of someone in an orthopedic surgeons office that told a prospective patient that he would not see him - that he must go the the Orthp. surgeon he saw in the ER - this was after the patient came in and saw him and had to pay for the consultation. I guess the ER is used as a "feeder" business?
Many years ago, taking ER call was a good way for most doctors to get new patients. That was back in the day when patients paid their bills and insurance was a good thing for doctors. Fast forward to today...ER call is a burden for most specialists since insurance no longer pays enough (assuming they have insurance) to make it worthwhile to get up at 2am to go into your place of business to see a client you have never met before who may never pay you but can still sue you. Especially with hospitals with a higher proportion of patients that are uninsured, Medicaid, and Medicare. Decreasing reimbursement from all parties has forced doctors to behave as a business. This is why hospitals struggle to find doctors willing to take call for them. Most hospitals are now resorting to paying the doctors to be available. An increasing proportion of ER visits are not appropriate for the ER and patients are simply there because it's "free".
Last edited by toofache32; 03-26-2016 at 04:32 PM..
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