RTD light rail: what works and what doesn't? (Lone Tree: gated, salaries)

[Eddyline]

I'm confused by this discussion. Why wouldn't someone using the system for 15 miles pay more than someone only going 3 miles? What is unfair about that?

[robertgoodman]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

The point is that there is no equity or sense to the system. There is also no precedent for charging zone fares on light rail. No other US city does that. So if by "most transit systems that implement zones" you mean only RTD, then yes your statement is technically correct.

I was talking zones in general and not just in the US, but you already knew that if you actually read my posts.

There's a lot of things that are inconsistent throughout the world when it comes to public transit pricing. You take the LIRR from jamaica to penn station in NYC it costs over twice as much as the E line. In Boston a Green line T station a few blocks from a zone 2 commuter station going to the same north station is 1/3 the price. In London the buses are not zoned but the tube is. Those are just a few inconsistencies I know off-hand. However, Just because it's inconsistent that doesn't make the non-zoned flat fare form of transit magically more equitable to all. So once again what is your point?

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Eddyline

I'm confused by this discussion. Why wouldn't someone using the system for 15 miles pay more than someone only going 3 miles? What is unfair about that?

Better question. Why does RTD charge someone going 3 miles more then someone going 12 miles?

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by Eddyline

I'm confused by this discussion. Why wouldn't someone using the system for 15 miles pay more than someone only going 3 miles? What is unfair about that?

I think that the issue is that there is not similar pricing consistency when compared to the bus routes.

For example, if one takes a local bus, or two or three since transfers are free, one will pay the same $2.25 (for a full price fare) to travel 3 miles as one does to travel 15, or in my case 20.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

I was talking zones in general and not just in the US, but you already knew that if you actually read my posts.

There's a lot of things that are inconsistent throughout the world when it comes to public transit pricing. You take the LIRR from jamaica to penn station in NYC it costs over twice as much as the E line. In Boston a Green line T station a few blocks from a zone 2 commuter station going to the same north station is 1/3 the price. In London the buses are not zoned but the tube is. Those are just a few inconsistencies I know off-hand. However, Just because it's inconsistent that doesn't make the non-zoned flat fare form of transit magically more equitable to all. So once again what is your point?

As you already said in another post, you are comparing apples to oranges and bananas. Light rail ≠ commuter rail or subway.

I will agree with you on one thing. When you said that RTD's light rail is a hybrid commuter rail / light rail system. You nailed that one. I really hope that when it comes time for the first rebuild, RTD will take the opportunity to upgrade the entire system to commuter rail.

[Eddyline]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

I think that the issue is that there is not similar pricing consistency when compared to the bus routes.

For example, if one takes a local bus, or two or three since transfers are free, one will pay the same $2.25 (for a full price fare) to travel 3 miles as one does to travel 15, or in my case 20.

Ok, so compared to a local bus it is not consistent. But the regional buses have always been more (more miles and more $) and virtually every other form of transportation cost more the further you go (including private auto). I do agree the RTD light Rail is too expensive at $8-10 per round trip. Also there are certain logistical problems on a local bus of charging different amounts.

[Eddyline]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

As you already said in another post, you are comparing apples to oranges and bananas. Light rail ≠ commuter rail or subway.

I will agree with you on one thing. When you said that RTD's light rail is a hybrid commuter rail / light rail system. You nailed that one. I really hope that when it comes time for the first rebuild, RTD will take the opportunity to upgrade the entire system to commuter rail.

Given the distances involved and the fact the electric service is in place, what is the advantage of changing light rail to commuter rail?

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

I think that the issue is that there is not similar pricing consistency when compared to the bus routes.

For example, if one takes a local bus, or two or three since transfers are free, one will pay the same $2.25 (for a full price fare) to travel 3 miles as one does to travel 15, or in my case 20.

Agreed, plus it is counterproductive to RTD's mission. It encourages people to drive to a farther station. RTD is not supposed to be encouraging people to drive more.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Eddyline

Given the distances involved and the fact the electric service is in place, what is the advantage of changing light rail to commuter rail?

Longer faster trains with fewer stops. Probably express trains, for even faster service.

[Eddyline]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Longer faster trains with fewer stops. Probably express trains, for even faster service.

So the increases speed is at the cost of fewer stops (which can also be accomplished with light rail) which means decreased service for some.