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Old 07-15-2010, 12:51 PM
 
299 posts, read 709,114 times
Reputation: 172

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It's easy to say that food preparation and recipes varies, sure. But, there are degrees to this and to claim that the idea of 'authenticity' isn't valid doesn't make much sense.

When I lived in New Zealand I was taken to an American style restaurant in Auckland in the Ponsonby neighborhood. They proudly served me a burger which, on the menu, was called the 'American Classic'. It was a great quality burger on nice bun, topped with shredded beets and an egg. Evidently, it's very common to put eggs on burgers down there, just as you see seafood on pizza when you order Dominos in Hong Kong.

There's nothing wrong with this, everyone adjusts their food to taste. But when you call something 'authentic' there can be some real meaning to that.

Restaurants are welcome to create their own recipes, but when a Thai restaurant serves me a SomTam with a flavor and ingredients that would be considered rare in Thailand (i.e. I've never had one like that after eating it hundreds of times all over the country) then I think it's fair to say that's not a traditional, authentic, or common preparation.

I am not locked into any mentality, and I'm not demonstrating some pretense (but thanks for that). However, I can't really accept that just 'anything goes' when it comes to the topic of ethnic food authenticity. There are no rules about what a restaurant can serve and creative fusions or alterations to classic dishes can be fantastic, but the word 'authentic' means something.
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:29 PM
 
5,089 posts, read 15,341,901 times
Reputation: 7017
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreMove View Post
It's easy to say that food preparation and recipes varies, sure. But, there are degrees to this and to claim that the idea of 'authenticity' isn't valid doesn't make much sense.

When I lived in New Zealand I was taken to an American style restaurant in Auckland in the Ponsonby neighborhood. They proudly served me a burger which, on the menu, was called the 'American Classic'. It was a great quality burger on nice bun, topped with shredded beets and an egg. Evidently, it's very common to put eggs on burgers down there, just as you see seafood on pizza when you order Dominos in Hong Kong.

There's nothing wrong with this, everyone adjusts their food to taste. But when you call something 'authentic' there can be some real meaning to that.

Restaurants are welcome to create their own recipes, but when a Thai restaurant serves me a SomTam with a flavor and ingredients that would be considered rare in Thailand (i.e. I've never had one like that after eating it hundreds of times all over the country) then I think it's fair to say that's not a traditional, authentic, or common preparation.

I am not locked into any mentality, and I'm not demonstrating some pretense (but thanks for that). However, I can't really accept that just 'anything goes' when it comes to the topic of ethnic food authenticity. There are no rules about what a restaurant can serve and creative fusions or alterations to classic dishes can be fantastic, but the word 'authentic' means something.
Your comment made me laugh and brought back memories. I was in New Zealand, on my way to and back from the Antarctic. I also spend time there setting up food procurement contracts for the bases.

I can remember that Kiwis put beets on many things--I forgot about the burgers. That is funny.

I will have to agree that beets and eggs on a burger are not "classic" or close to "authentic". So, you have me there. Perhaps you could say with a grin that it is a classic with an adaption; they can call it the classic Mcbeet Burger

This is making me laugh. When, Just before, I started the job, McMurdo Station ran out of ketchup because the previous supply ship was short. So, it was ordered from New Zealand. There were so many complaints because it did not taste like ketchup--it had a different flavor--it was some Kiwi ketchup brand.

I had a problem because the site was also out of grits. Well, they did not have grits in New Zealand. So, I ordered polenta for air supply from NZ. vs. an extremely expensive supply from the US by air.

Polenta and Grits are somewhat the same, depending on the grind. The Polenta was yellow, instead of the more common white grits, and there were complains--I just told them it was gourmet grits. That satisfied most of them. However, there was this bunch of rough redneck construction workers that were used to Hominy Grits which is much different--they were not happy. So, I learned a lesson--do not fool with the breakfast of Southern Champions.

Once for a banquet, when I was a banquet chef at a hotel, there was a call for escargot (snails). It was a fairly large banquet with a buffet. So, I prepared the escargot, sauteed with garlic, butter, olive oil, sauteed a la provencal, I added a little concassee of tomato to add color, served them hot in a chafing dish; garnished with toast points and compound butter. People ate it and were crazy about it and the preparation. I got numerous compliments.

However, this one couple complain and said they should be served natural in their shells. I talked to them and they told me it was wrong to remove them from the shells; and that was not "authentic"; and seafood is best served simply and fresh.

Well, I shocked them when I informed them that the snails are land snails not from the sea. In addition, I explained to them that the process of preparing fresh snails always involves cleaning them because they eat carrion (rotting stuff), soaking them with a clean water with cornmeal so you can clean their system and they have to be removed from the shell etc. Fresh snails are not available and no one has the days to clean snails.

But they insisted that they should be served on a silver platter with the snail tong. Again, it was a large buffet and serving snails separately on an individual platter was not reasonable. Also, I told them, that escargot, snails, originate as a poor mans dish and were originally or "authentically" just sauteed, generally in butter and garlic, and not put back into the dirty shell. The presentation of putting them back is the shell is common in America but not Europe. These people had no idea that the snails are sold in a can and the clean shells are sold separately.

I have numerous stories with the idea of what is "authentic". So, there you have it--real stories from the trenches. OK, maybe you are not pretentious.

Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 07-15-2010 at 03:38 PM..
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:41 PM
 
299 posts, read 709,114 times
Reputation: 172
Thanks for posting that, I appreciate it because as a diehard 'foodie' I really appreciate authenticity but I also don't mind deviations. I just want to be clear on what I'm eating

Take, for example, tacos! I have spent considerable time in Mexico and I'm from LA so I have eaten plenty of tacos. I like the 'authentic' kind that you see in Mexico where there are two little tortillas and a pile of stuff on them. Or, the still 'authentic' kind that you see where they make the tortillas crispy.

But I also love mom-tacos - an American invention where you take perfectly shaped taco shells that come out of a machine and fill them with ground beef, shredded cheddar (usually) and shredded lettuce. It's a classic, tastes great, and it's a taco by any definition but is it authentic? Well, it's rare to see those kind of tacos in Mexico.

But hey, I like eating my Mexican style tacos at the lunch truck and I love a mom-taco, too. I don't mind creative Thai cuisine, but sometimes I want it to be made like it's done 99.9% of the time in Thailand. What's pretentious about that?

To define authentic is tough, but it didn't take me long (well, a year) to find an authentic Thai restaurant in Denver that makes food the way the vast, vast, majority of restaurants do it in Thailand. The other restaurants may be just as good, but sometimes you don't want a beet-burger.
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:41 PM
 
3 posts, read 9,848 times
Reputation: 18
The guy who said there's 1 Ethiopian restaurant on Colfax hasn't driven down Colfax much. Heading East on Colfax you can't miss em. I think there are 7 Ethiopian restaurants on Colfax, but my favorite is Abyssinia at Colfax and Colorado Blvd. Africana Cafe is good too. In total there are about 15 in Denver/Aurora.

That in addition to Nigerian, Kenyan, Somali, Morrocan and Ghanaian restaurants. There's a map of African restaurants in metro Denver here: [url=http://www.metroafrican.com/restaurants]African Restaurants in Denver, Colorado | metroAfrican[/url]. There are plenty of options for those willing to seek them out.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:55 PM
 
5,089 posts, read 15,341,901 times
Reputation: 7017
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreMove View Post
Thanks for posting that, I appreciate it because as a diehard 'foodie' I really appreciate authenticity but I also don't mind deviations. I just want to be clear on what I'm eating

Take, for example, tacos! I have spent considerable time in Mexico and I'm from LA so I have eaten plenty of tacos. I like the 'authentic' kind that you see in Mexico where there are two little tortillas and a pile of stuff on them. Or, the still 'authentic' kind that you see where they make the tortillas crispy.

But I also love mom-tacos - an American invention where you take perfectly shaped taco shells that come out of a machine and fill them with ground beef, shredded cheddar (usually) and shredded lettuce. It's a classic, tastes great, and it's a taco by any definition but is it authentic? Well, it's rare to see those kind of tacos in Mexico.

But hey, I like eating my Mexican style tacos at the lunch truck and I love a mom-taco, too. I don't mind creative Thai cuisine, but sometimes I want it to be made like it's done 99.9% of the time in Thailand. What's pretentious about that?

To define authentic is tough, but it didn't take me long (well, a year) to find an authentic Thai restaurant in Denver that makes food the way the vast, vast, majority of restaurants do it in Thailand. The other restaurants may be just as good, but sometimes you don't want a beet-burger.
Well, very interesting. I know very little about Thai Food. That specific cuisine was not taught when I went to school-as it was seen much in the US, at that time. By the time, it became, popular, I was out of the working world.

You have much experience in Mexican Food. Food of the Americas is becoming a big influence on our culture. That is why They Culinary Institute of America is opening a school in San Antonio The CIA in San Antonio, TX-The Culinary Institute of America This is in addition to the main campus in New York, where I went and Napa in California.

It is nice to be a foodie as long as you do not let it go to your waistline--then you will have a big pretension to show--like the one I have.

Vincent
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Eastside of Denver(:
84 posts, read 336,425 times
Reputation: 67
Wow. This thread is bullshyt. Denver has a ton of good authentic ethnic places to eat. My favorite restaurant neighborhoods are:

East Colfax: for Acapulco Pupusas (Salvadoran), Queen of Sheba (Ethiopian), Habesha (Ethiopian), and all the little Mexican hole-in-the-wall type places. Yes, it's ghetto east of Quebec, but the food is amazing, despite the area being run-down.

South Federal: starting at the Far East Center for Vietnamese, Chinese, and Laotian restaurants and markets, my favorite is Vinh Truong Bakery. This is at Federal and Alameda by the pagoda, and the area from Alameda to Florida along Federal is filled with Vietnamese and Mexican places.

Leetsdale: This is a much less defined ethnic area but it has a lot of great Russian and Jewish and Eastern European places to eat. My favorite is the East Europe Market on Colorado Blvd, and the Joe's Kebab Place which actually is Russian-owned and serves Russian food.

West Denver: It's the Mexican half of Denver, haha. So therefore there are Mexican places everywhere, pick and choose. My favorites are Taco De Mexico in the Lincoln Park neighborhood, Santiago's (also in Lincoln Park), Taqueria Patzcuaro (in the North Side), and Cuba Cuba (Civic Center).

And Aurora is a whole 'nother story. But since it's not Denver...I guess I can't really go into that on this thread(:
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Denver; Sloan's Lake
75 posts, read 205,544 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreMove View Post
Thanks for posting that, I appreciate it because as a diehard 'foodie' I really appreciate authenticity but I also don't mind deviations. I just want to be clear on what I'm eating

Take, for example, tacos! I have spent considerable time in Mexico and I'm from LA so I have eaten plenty of tacos. I like the 'authentic' kind that you see in Mexico where there are two little tortillas and a pile of stuff on them. Or, the still 'authentic' kind that you see where they make the tortillas crispy.

But I also love mom-tacos - an American invention where you take perfectly shaped taco shells that come out of a machine and fill them with ground beef, shredded cheddar (usually) and shredded lettuce. It's a classic, tastes great, and it's a taco by any definition but is it authentic? Well, it's rare to see those kind of tacos in Mexico.

But hey, I like eating my Mexican style tacos at the lunch truck and I love a mom-taco, too. I don't mind creative Thai cuisine, but sometimes I want it to be made like it's done 99.9% of the time in Thailand. What's pretentious about that?

To define authentic is tough, but it didn't take me long (well, a year) to find an authentic Thai restaurant in Denver that makes food the way the vast, vast, majority of restaurants do it in Thailand. The other restaurants may be just as good, but sometimes you don't want a beet-burger.
I'm the same way - I love authentic tacos and the Americanized tacos both. Very different, both good.

As for Thai, from what I've heard, most Americans wouldn't like real Thai food prepared like it is in Thailand. Really strongly fishy tasting from what I'm told. I love Thai Basil and get delivery from there regularly. Quite Americanized and quite tasty!

I'm annoyed at people who get so caught up in making sure everything has to be so "authentic." I'm also annoyed at people who think there aren't good places to eat in Denver. Sure, we don't have some of the high end places that cities like NY and LA do, but how often do you need to eat a $500 dinner anyway.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:48 PM
 
299 posts, read 709,114 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHiGolfer View Post
I'm the same way - I love authentic tacos and the Americanized tacos both. Very different, both good.

As for Thai, from what I've heard, most Americans wouldn't like real Thai food prepared like it is in Thailand. Really strongly fishy tasting from what I'm told. I love Thai Basil and get delivery from there regularly. Quite Americanized and quite tasty!

I'm annoyed at people who get so caught up in making sure everything has to be so "authentic." I'm also annoyed at people who think there aren't good places to eat in Denver. Sure, we don't have some of the high end places that cities like NY and LA do, but how often do you need to eat a $500 dinner anyway.
Thai food isn't fishy in Thailand. I think you are confusing it with Chinese food, which most Americans don't like that much when they try it in China.

Denver has lots of good restaurants, but it doesn't compare to NY or LA. I'm not just talking about high end places - in NYC you can walk outside and get fantastic food of many types for less money then you'd spend in Denver. Street food all the way up to high end places.

I'm not knocking Denver, but it is what it is.
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,717,064 times
Reputation: 3369
I prefer authentic food over Americanized food.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:59 AM
 
10 posts, read 30,668 times
Reputation: 20
Coming from Sydney is Australia, which has a diverse and substantial 'food scene', Denver is a bit of a let down. It's littered with so many food chains and not enough decent ethnic restaurants.
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