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this is my favorite thread now that i've moved into my new baker home and have internet access once again, here are a few thoughts-
livecontent- your idea of car free zones will happen slowly. in new york where i have just come from there is a city program dedicated towards converting road space into public plazas. times square is the most high profile, but there are dozens being created in traditionally high traffic areas NYCDOT - NYC Plaza Program. Denver has lots of wide roads and funky intersections which would lend themselves to similiar redesigns.
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majority of people (even car-lovers) would support having 'car-free' zones as long as they didn't interfere with the arterial street system - ie Broadway would not be a car free zone
It seems that even during rush hour the traffic on south broadway where I now live is not that bad. With the light rail running south, there is less need for a high volume "arterial" for commuters. This is a retail and residential area which would benefit tremendously from expending pedestrian and plaza space. I would love to see a lane or two changed over to green space, cafes, bike lanes, etc.
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The two stupid people riding side by side on their oh so cool but very slow (6-9mph max) old cruisers down 13th taking up an entire lane
Steve, that was probably me and my wife Actually our schwinn's just arrived on the truck today, but that is how we ride. If there is no bike lane and there is more than one lane of traffic allowing for passing, I will "take the lane" and ride in the center rather than skirt the edge of the road where i am more likely to get doored and less likely to be visible to speeding motorists.
It seems that even during rush hour the traffic on south broadway where I now live is not that bad. With the light rail running south, there is less need for a high volume "arterial" for commuters. This is a retail and residential area which would benefit tremendously from expending pedestrian and plaza space. I would love to see a lane or two changed over to green space, cafes, bike lanes, etc.
Part of the reason traffic isn't so bad is because Broadway is one of the streets where the city got it right and traffic flows pretty well because the lights are timed.
Light rail is not going to have that much of an impact as to make the major arterials from the south area (University, Broadway, Santa Fe) obselete. Traffic counts show weekday traffic on Broadway decreasing going south but still being over 15,000 each way at Evans from 35,000 at Alameda. University carries ~20,000 at Jewell just north of Evans. The only effect closing Broadway would have would be to shift traffic to streets that are more congested already. Logan street with ~5,000 cars/day would get much more busy.
The best candidates for car-free zones are those that are not arterials that feed from the region, not just the city. Pearl Street shopping district would be a great one. Then Tennyson, etc.
I will "take the lane" and ride in the center rather than skirt the edge of the road where i am more likely to get doored and less likely to be visible to speeding motorists.
Thing is, there was a dedicated bike lane 2 or 3 blocks over in one direction and a dedicated route one block the other way. The city has tons of routes and lanes for bikes, there is no reason to ride on a 3 lane wide one way busy street if you are not going to be close to the speed limit.
Visit a bike store, get a map, there are great routes almost everywhere with the exception of crossing I-25 which is limited and generally not fun (the bridge on 8th ave littered with glass anyone?).
There is a little realized part of the transit system in Denver that would help more people to use their cars less--It is called Transit/Tranfer Center http://www.rtd-denver.com/TransitCenters.shtml
"A transit/transfer center is a station or transit hub where many RTD services and routes come together, making it easy for passengers to travel all over the metro area..."
These are in addition to the many Park n' Rides and Rail Stations but do include some of these. Most of them are bus transfer areas where many buses arrive at the same location and many have timed transfers, so that the connecting bus will not leave until the other route arrives.
What this gives us, as transit riders, is more points to make connections. Many of these connections are just as good, or better, than living near a commuter rail station. I like them because many exist near central shopping and business areas that have many services. So, you can live in a walkable distance of these areas and have access to multiple buses around stores that you shop.
The one that appeals to me is the 38th and Youngfield transfer station. It is in the great little neighborhood of Applewood, where Wheat Ridge, Golden and Lakewood meet. Now, the tranfer station is nothing fancy and it is mostly a bunch of bus shelters and stops cluster together. In this case it is on the western edge of the Wallmart Parking Lot. But, it serves the purpose. In this shopping center is a King Soopers, banks, stores, restaurants etc. and you have five buses serving this location that branch out into different directions.
There are other ones that I have used over the years: Bear Valley, Yale and Sheridan--in front of the King Soopers. Four buses serve this area. Lakewood Commons is also nice and is near the Lakewood City Hall, Library, a King Soopers, more stores, and across the street from Belmar.
I gave you the link to this service. You can explore and pull up an aerial map. If you are looking to live car free and car less, perhaps living near many of these areas will help you. They may even be better than living near transit stations as many are more relaxed established neighborhoods.
I think one of the best that will be heavily used will be when they complete the Street at Southglenn at Arapahoe and University in Centennial. It is now labeled Race/Davies on the website. It does not look like much but the area is under construction. It is served by 4 buses.
When Southglenn Mall was fully operational, many years ago, it was nice and there was a King Soopers across the street to east on University. You had the mall and basic shopping. I seem to point the way toward King Soopers but I think they are a good basic shopping stores and they gather a good mix of stores around them. Now, I know some of you like Whole Foods and yes, they are also in many of these transfer stations--so you can have many good neighborhoods to live.
Oh, I am really jealous of chilicheesefries and his family. They picked a really great area to live in Centennial near this Streets at Southglenn. It is always nice to hear that a young family made a great choice. And that is what it is about, making better choices of places to live. You do not have to be totally car free, but to have the options to use a auto less by walking and have access to transit, if the need arises, is wise.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 07-10-2009 at 12:05 PM..
I think one of the best that will be heavily used will be when they complete the Street at Southglenn at Arapahoe and University in Centennial. It is now labeled Race/Davies on the website. It does not look like much but the area is under construction. It is served by 4 buses.
When Southglenn Mall was fully operational, many years ago, it was nice and there was a King Soopers across the street to east on University. You had the mall and basic shopping. I seem to point the way toward King Soopers but I think they are a good basic shopping stores and they gather a good mix of stores around them. Now, I know some of you like Whole Foods and yes, they are also in many of these transfer stations--so you can have many good neighborhoods to live.
Oh, I am really jealous of chilicheesefries and his family. They picked a really great area to live in Centennial near this Streets at Southglenn. It is always nice to hear that a young family made a great choice. And that is what it is about, making better choices of places to live. You do not have to be totally car free, but to have the options to use a auto less by walking and have access to transit, if the need arises, is wise.
Livecontent
Livecontent - we got lucky there. Southglenn was still open when we moved there and didn't have plans to tear down and build the Streets yet. One thing that makes the neighborhoods hear more walkable/liveable is that off Arapahoe Rd. & Dry Creek Rds. on both north and south sides are 1-2 block long loops, where the circle comes off the main street and goes down a few blocks and then loops back. It seems to be very unique to the area. Really cuts down on traffic. What makes it nice is that on the end of these loops are 'cut-throughs' for bike/pedestrian traffic. This makes it easy to walk places w/o walking along Arapahoe Rd or Dry Creek Rd. This increases the walkability. Also, Littleton Public School playgrounds are open use parks after school hours, so that gives more parks.
As far as I know, there was never a King Soopers east side of University, only the Safeway which closed less than a year ago that was there. That's my memory stretching back into the 80's. The King Soopers at Arapahoe & Holly and Dry Creek & University are both fairly old too.
Wow, cool idea with the ped cut-throughs at the end of the loops! That's usually what kills me about suburbia when you walk or ride down a street only to hit a dead-end and have to turn back around. I wouldn't mind a few more neighborhoods designed like this, as long as there is some mixed-use development nearby to serve them.
I mentioned this in a previous post talking about the Riverpointe development in Sheridan with Costco & SuperTarget. They're about 1-2 city blocks apart, but the parking lot is huge and not pedestrian friendly at all
I had my first (mis)adventure in car free living yesterday involving this plaza. I planned to ride my bike down the south platte bike path to the target and then take the lightrail back up to alameda. I ended up wandering lost around a huge, empty expanse of parking lot trying to figure out exactly where the station was. When I finally identified it, I found myself stuck on the other side of I25 without anyway to cross. I was directly in front of the station but without anyway to get there. So close, but so far. I ended up having to ride home in a wind and dust storm. This development seems like a terrible use of land so close to both a major light rail station and bike path. It is pretty much impossible to shop at costco without a car. I will stick to my local markets from now on.
I had my first (mis)adventure in car free living yesterday involving this plaza. I planned to ride my bike down the south platte bike path to the target and then take the lightrail back up to alameda. I ended up wandering lost around a huge, empty expanse of parking lot trying to figure out exactly where the station was. When I finally identified it, I found myself stuck on the other side of I25 without anyway to cross. I was directly in front of the station but without anyway to get there. So close, but so far. I ended up having to ride home in a wind and dust storm. This development seems like a terrible use of land so close to both a major light rail station and bike path. It is pretty much impossible to shop at costco without a car. I will stick to my local markets from now on.
I agree, the Riverpoint Sheridan was very poorly designed. It's difficult to get there on foot or bike since you have to either cross Santa Fe or 285. Heck, I'm not even so sure I'd want to walk from Target to Costco which is just across the gigantic parking lot. I have no idea why they thought they needed such and enormous area for parking. It's pretty ridiculous.
I agree, the Riverpoint Sheridan was very poorly designed. It's difficult to get there on foot or bike since you have to either cross Santa Fe or 285. Heck, I'm not even so sure I'd want to walk from Target to Costco which is just across the gigantic parking lot. I have no idea why they thought they needed such and enormous area for parking. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm not sure why they did that. Between the 2 they have what looks like a covered train station and a stop sign in the parking lot, but there is nothing there!
You don't want to walk from Target to Costco. It is dangerous to your health. We had gone to Target and had the twins in their stroller so we thought maybe it is easier for me to walk them to Costco rather than interrupt them and put them in their car seats for such a short walk. Turns out there are no sidewalks from the front of Target to the front of Costco. You have to walk across the parking lot almost to the street (Riverpoint Pkwy) and there are sidewalks by the stores right by the street. The whole time you are walking across non-walker friendly parking lot. Then some idiot driving a white car blows by, missing us by a few feet, nearly hitting another car and then the car my wife was driving. Then you would have to walk across the 'lanes' that lead from the street to the front of the stores. Repeat several times, walk back across the parking lot and then you're at Costco. Needless to say we didn't make it.
There are few things more frustrating then dealing with idiot reckless drivers when you are a pedestrian walking with your children. I had a similar experience in that same parking lot.
At least some of the land to build Riverpoint Sheridan was acquired through eminent domain. Maybe the bad design can be blamed in part to bad karma. Any law which allows allows the state to seize private property without the owner's consent has to have some kind of consequence, right?
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