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View Poll Results: To Doubletrack, or Not To Doubletrack?
Yes, doubletrack it. This will benefit travelers and taxpayers the most by adding expansion options for these stations. 4 19.05%
Yes, doubletrack it, but developers and DIA should be funding most or all of the cost. 9 42.86%
No, leave it singletrack. It's too expensive and will slow down trips to and from DIA. 3 14.29%
I don't think we should be shelling out this kind of money for trains to begin with! 5 23.81%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-18-2011, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,138 posts, read 10,982,481 times
Reputation: 7808

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboyxjon View Post
I could be wrong, but I think the DIA line is supposed to be commuter rail instead of light rail, at least according to the map legend on the fastracks site.

edited to add: East Corridor
Yes, it is a commuter rail line. But if they start adding stations every half mile, its going to look more like a light rail line, then a commuter train.

The problem with all these rail projects, is that they are being designed to spur development (which is not necessarily bad) rather then being anything that the majority of people would ride.

Take a look the below picture of the planned station at DIA. Now lets say that everyone gets there wish and there are stations every half mile between Downtown and DIA.

Now I've just concluded my visit to Denver, so I check out of the hotel. First I drag all of my heavy bags to the train station. Which even if the stations are a half mile apart (like apparently most people would like to see), could be a quarter mile away from my hotel. After I have dragged all my bags to the station, I buy my ticket and get on the train to DIA. I arrive at the DIA station. Drag all of my heavy bags again up the escalator out of the station, and into the new DIA hotel. I walk all the way through the hotel, and then into the terminal. Then all the way through terminal to get to the check in. By this time I'm worn out because I've carried my bags a good mile at this point.

Or, I could just check out of the hotel. Climb in the free hotel shuttle bus at the front entrance. Which will then shoot past all those slow ass trains making stops every half mile, and get dropped of 30 feet away from the ticket counter.

Which way do you think I'm going to choose? Sorry as much as I like the idea of the train, I'd just take the free shuttle and get dropped 30 feet from check in. The only people who would ride a system like that would be airport workers. Few travelers would ever ride it.

Fortunately the situation is not going to be quite that bad, because there is no money for RTD to build all those extra stations if they wanted to. These rail projects could be very worthwhile if they are done right. Otherwise they will be a complete waste of money. And slow trains making frequent stops is not the right way.

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Old 04-18-2011, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,126,886 times
Reputation: 10428
I've taken the light rail in Portland to and from the airport. It wasn't some horrible schlepping of luggage! I had no issues and it dropped me a block from my hotel.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,138 posts, read 10,982,481 times
Reputation: 7808
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I've taken the light rail in Portland to and from the airport. It wasn't some horrible schlepping of luggage! I had no issues and it dropped me a block from my hotel.
But Portland's Airport is six miles from Downtown, not 25. Even then a quick check of Tri-Met's Red Line schedule shows that it takes about 40 min. to make the trip from Downtown Portland to the Airport. Can imagine how long it would take to get to DIA on a light rail train, making that many stops?

BTW I've traveled a lot of places myself, carrying sometimes up to 70 lbs. of luggage on busses and trains. But I think I'm getting a bit too old for that now. Now I just look for the easy way. One of the nicest things about DIA is that ground transportation is only about 30 feet away from baggage claim or check-in. I can't see how the DIA train is going to be as convenient as that. That would be a deal killer for me, if I'm traveling with a lot of luggage.
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:11 PM
 
Location: 25 sq. miles surrounded by reality
205 posts, read 502,075 times
Reputation: 286
I don't think a commuter rail line, which the airport line will be, would ever have stops a 1/2 mile apart. But having said that, if the developers want stops, they should pay for the stations and also for any additional infrastructure required to allow RTD to have express or local express trains between the airport and downtown.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:01 PM
 
6,362 posts, read 11,819,166 times
Reputation: 6795
Sounds great to have developers pay, but then it ceases to be public transit. A private train to th airport could go faster ad or have more or fewer stops. But saying for so many millions we'll sell you a stop would just open up such a sick corruption machine.

What currently happens now though is the transit generates higher land values near stops increasing the property tax take. Additional revenues are also had by increased economic actvity and ultimately more activity caused by traffic coming off the road or by attracting business from elsewhere to anchor in a well transited city. However thanks to zealous polticians protecting their revenue cows this reality is never acknowledged nor is it shared. So transit could be generating a lot more funds than just the farebox, but it still has to go down as this big money loser while the governments of all levels get to keep all the incremental taxes transit helps drive.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,627 posts, read 4,205,747 times
Reputation: 1783
First off, appreciate all the great posts and opinions.

Secondly, I have to agree that adding the two additional stations will slow down the train. Part of the benefit of the train only having five stops is that they should all be relatively significant stops with Park n Rides or else already be in the running for larger development. 30 minutes sounds like a perfectly reasonable amount of time to get from the airport to downtown, particular amid rush hour traffic.

If they really want the other two stops, I think 1) Developers and DIA should pay for it, and 2) they should keep further transit development in mind to accomodate it. Am I correct in understanding that the primary logistics and cost issue (stations aside) are the bridges? Since if they aren't double tracked from the start, it would cost a fortune to expand or build additional bridges, yes?

Right of Way seems to be quite secure in the area, so I'd wonder the following...if the bridges were double tracked, and the commuter train are EMU (electric) rather than Diesel, would it be possible to run even an *additional* track later (on the ROW, not on the bridges) that could be trafficked by, say, the 225 corridor light rail as a "local" train, while the commuter rail would be a "limited" or "express" to Union Station? Wishful thinking, I know, and certainly not viable for possibly a couple decades, but curious what others might think of such solutions, regardless of their current viability...except assuming "expandability" in the future. Note: I don't even know if the EMU and Light Rail power and tracks are compatible, so this may not even be an option.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:58 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,775,036 times
Reputation: 4580
Well you could run a An Airport Express only Servicing 3 stops , Downtown , Peoria & DIA....then there should be a local train that services all the stations along the route. We have several lines with stations less then a mile apart , New York bound trains skip those while Hoboken bound trains stop at those tiny stations. I see no reason why this type of setup couldn't work on the East line?


YouTube - Mountain Station Video Part 1
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,138 posts, read 10,982,481 times
Reputation: 7808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Well you could run a An Airport Express only Servicing 3 stops , Downtown , Peoria & DIA....then there should be a local train that services all the stations along the route. We have several lines with stations less then a mile apart , New York bound trains skip those while Hoboken bound trains stop at those tiny stations. I see no reason why this type of setup couldn't work on the East line?


YouTube - Mountain Station Video Part 1
Thats awesome, if you like 1940s trains. Or you could have something more like this, that more then 5% of DIA travels would actually ride.


YouTube - maglev july 20 2009
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