RTD to postpone completion of rail to Boulder and Longmont indefinitely. (Denver: insurance, income)

[CO_Transplant]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

True or not, the trouble here is that the people of Longmont and Boulder have paid in expecting to get something that they may not get now. RTD may need to engage the public very heavily if they are to retain some kind of confidence and compromise. I'd love to see that line eventually as I think it's good for the area, but I understand the economics of it right now are just not favorable. In addition, changing bus routes (as have been discussed in other threads) have their disadvantages as well...less opportunity for TOD, loss of routes in areas that have apparently low ridership (when it may be poor transit planning), etc...

As I said before, though. Good, comfortable, on time and good frequency BRT with a dedicated right-of-way could do the job...and perhaps win over a few people as well. If highly successful, it could spur the rail later on...if moderately successful, then it accomplishes the task of getting people from one place to another. If not successful, it would prove your point. Not a bad deal any which way.

I'm sure they will either get their rail or their money back. I'm just tired of people whining about how poor the economy is and then complaining why a billion dollar rail system can't be built to suit them immediately. Unfortunately for people on the north side, the light rail system began when there was plenty of money available. If we still had money blowing in the wind, northsiders would likely be getting their lines pretty soon. I understand the outrage, but we all have to compromise!

BRT and reversible lanes are relatively low cost options, which would at least do something. As far as I know, the US36 project is slated to be under construction soon, which will solve some issues on that freeway. Southsiders who use the 470 would kill for something like that down there. However, the money just isn't there. There are compromises we have to make for the sake of our regional transportation network! Not everyone is going to get what they need right away, but it will happen eventually.

[KaaBoom]

Hybrid transit plan wins RTD nod in northwest corridor
POSTED: 03/28/2012 01:00:00 AM MDT
UPDATED: 03/28/2012 02:15:27 AM MDT By David Migoya
The Denver Post

The Regional Transportation District board on Tuesday unanimously approved a plan to build a hybrid transportation system — part commuter rail and part bus lines — to the northwest corridor from Denver to Longmont instead of the full rail system voters were promised in 2004.

The entire option hinges on voters approving a doubling of a 0.4-percent sales tax in November. But the issue may not even get to them. The plan now moves on to the Denver Regional Council of Governments, which has the authority to approve or kill the plan. It's expected that body will decide on the matter by June.

Hybrid transit plan wins RTD nod in northwest corridor - The Denver Post

[patrickfatrick]

As expected. I have a feeling DRCOG will okay the project and it'll go to the vote. Really have no idea if the vote will pass, but I have hope. 30 years is a long time to wait for something the metro area needs now.

Maybe RTD will be able to score a federal grant to finish the project in a timely manner, who knows.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by patrickfatrick

Maybe RTD will be able to score a federal grant to finish the project in a timely manner, who knows.

For the BRT portion maybe, the commuter rail portion is basically non-fundable from a DoT perspective, it costs too much and has ridership projections that are too low even after they were revised.

Another possibility is that the revised ridership projections for the I-225 corridor and North corridor would allow for federal funding on them and would free up additional RTD funding for the NW corridor. But, I doubt the DoT is going to have much money in the future since repairing and improving the national infrastructure doesn't seem to be a priority at the federal level

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by patrickfatrick

As expected. I have a feeling DRCOG will okay the project and it'll go to the vote. Really have no idea if the vote will pass, but I have hope. 30 years is a long time to wait for something the metro area needs now.

Maybe RTD will be able to score a federal grant to finish the project in a timely manner, who knows.

Federal grants must have matching local funds. I'm sure RTD is already counting on that federal money in their plans.

As for the vote. I'm pretty sure that Boulder County voters are not stupid enough to give RTD another 0.4% tax, just to get better bus service in ten years. Especially when they were already promised rail for the last tax increase.

Even if RTD could convince Boulder County residents to vote for, there is no incentive for Metro Denver residents to vote for it.

RTD FastTracks is dead.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

RTD FastTracks is dead.

Boom!

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by tfox

This isn't a surprise. It's been clear for a long time (years) that there never was going to be rail to Boulder, much less Longmont.

I'm not defending RTD, but the RTD NW rail proposal really made no sense to Boulder County residents -- it didn't really even go to Boulder proper, just to a new location at 33rd & Pearl. Longmont residents would have done okay taking the train to Boulder, but it made no provision to get Longmont riders to Metro Denver. Poor planning on RTD's part.

Boulder County is getting the Bus Rapid Transit to improve regional bus service on that route, and with that improved it seemed unlikely anyone would ever take the train unless they happened to live close to one of the stations.

I agree, though, that Longmont residents got a raw deal out of this. At the very least, they would have had rail service to Boulder, which would be nice given the horrid traffic on the Diagonal.

??? 33rd and Pearl is certainly the city proper. It's not downtown, but it's near the 29th St. Mall.

[patrickfatrick]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

As for the vote. I'm pretty sure that Boulder County voters are not stupid enough to give RTD another 0.4% tax, just to get better bus service in ten years. Especially when they were already promised rail for the last tax increase.

Even if RTD could convince Boulder County residents to vote for, there is no incentive for Metro Denver residents to vote for it.

RTD FastTracks is dead.

I'm in Boulder County and am more than willing to fork over another 0.4% so that we have viable options that don't compete with normal highway traffic on US36. I'm sure many other residents would say the same, and I highly doubt all of us are "stupid". So maybe chill out with the inflammatory rhetoric. In my opinion, it makes more economic sense at this point to pass the vote, though, for everyone (not just Boulder County residents). If you were to buy $10,000 worth of stuff in a year you'd be paying all of $40 of additional tax. That's not a lot. And then, it's more likely some cost-raising external variables (such as an economic crisis, or such as rising commodity prices) will get in the way the further we push this project back, and either way we will be paying the $1.7B, whether sooner or later.

Also, how is RTD FasTracks dead? Even if this vote fails, it's still going ahead. It's a difference of 2024 vs 2042. But like anything else in life, it's all speculative. We don't know if something will happen that will further raise prices on the project, we can only work with what we know, and I don't think pointing fingers at RTD for problems that they couldn't have foreseen at the time of the original vote is constructive at this point. I assume you probably didn't support the original FasTracks tax if you were in Denver at the time, and I don't plan to convince you of anything, but those are my thoughts.

[cowboyxjon]

I love the "it's not a lot of money" argument in favor of increasing the FasTracks tax. The reason why I'm against an additional 0.4% tax is the fact that EVERYTHING is increasing in price; the cost of living is rising. Sure, 0.4% by itself is not a lot, but I live in a city that basically wants to raise property taxes (Denver), and the Denver Public Library *may* also form a library district with taxing authority. My property tax amount INCREASED for 2011 because of Denver Public Schools even though my house was assessed at an amount less than what it had previouisly been assessed at. The cost of a gallon of gas is near $4. Food prices are rising. Energy prices are rising. Etc. Etc. Etc. And of course, my salary isn't rising to accommodate the increase in the cost of living, yet RTD and those who blindly support the project think nothing of asking for more.

I think these agencies need to learn to live within their means (and better manage projects like this!), even if it means that the project will be delayed.

[patrickfatrick]

Personal opinions (again, not an expert on any of this):

I hear you about the property tax. I'm not a fan of it either if only because it doesn't take income into account, which is ludicrous to me (my girlfriend's family is having to sell the house they've owned in upstate NY since 1975 because the property tax doubled last year and they simply can't afford it anymore). I'd much rather see a tax system that's based entirely on a sales and income tax (and a far simplified income tax at that).

But if you look at any list of state by state tax burdens, Colorado always ranks quite close to the bottom. Back in the 70s it used to rank somewhere around the middle of all states for overall tax burden, as of 2009 it's 39th out of 50. We don't pay a lot in taxes here. Our taxes here in United States are low in general, whether compared to other countries or compared to what we paid 30 years ago, and yet we complain about budget shortfalls and deficits, failing municipal services like public schools, libraries, road and transit infrastructure, etc. As with anything else, you get what you pay for. And I don't blindly support the project. I think RTD has made some mistakes with FasTracks, just not the ones that most people seem to think they made.

I would think rising gas prices is a good reason you should support the FasTracks project, and other similar projects that would expand the transit system here. And again, whether the vote passes or not, you'll still be paying the same amount, it'll just be spread out over a longer period of time and it will take 30 years for you to become the beneficiary of it rather than 12. If anything, though, I thought being transparent, admitting the shortfall, and asking for additional tax revenue so they can finish the project even remotely close to "on time" was the fiscally responsible thing to do.