Massive bus service cuts coming to Jefferson County in 2013.. (Golden: transfer to, neighborhoods)

[KaaBoom]

I found this on the RTD website, showing the proposed bus routes after the Gold Line and W Line opens. I know some people here have posted wondering what the service to Golden will be like after the west light rail line opens. It doesn't look good. Seems that RTD is planning to cut virtually all local and express bus service west of Wadsworth Blvd. except for a couple of main routes. See the discontinued routes in black on the below map.

This looks to me to be the single biggest cut in bus service ever for RTD. IMHO, it going to be a FAIL. Most of the new rail stations on the W Line will have no feeder bus service what so ever. I believe this is pretty much unprecedented for a rail system anywhere. Every rail system I know of depend on feeder bus routes to get people to the station. RTD seems to actually be encouraging people to drive, by providing no feeder bus service.

By discontinuing Route 17 service to the Jeffco Government Center, RTD is eliminating the only bus route that people could possibly use to get from there to Downtown Golden. Without having to go all the way to the Federal Center and transfer. This will leave Golden residents with no direct bus service to the Jeffco Government Center.

I think I've found an even bigger FAIL though. RTD plans to continue to run limited bus routes 30L and 36L from Federal Blvd. to Downtown to provide a connection for light rail riders who want to continue into the Central Business District. What the hell? They actually expect people to get off the light rail and transfer to buses at Federal Blvd. just to continue Downtown.

Thats the single biggest design flaw in the west line IMHO. I can't think of any good reason why that they couldn't have half the trains on the west line run Downtown to California St. The same way they do an the southeast and southwest lines. I guess they need to prop up their Union Station redevelopment some how.

[davebarnes]

No surprise.
RTD is trying to "drive" people to the train so they can say: "See, people are riding the rails. It was worth the bazillion $".

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

No surprise.
RTD is trying to "drive" people to the train so they can say: "See, people are riding the rails. It was worth the bazillion $".

Yes, but are they really driving people to the trains, by forcing them to drive their cars? Aren't a certain number of people just going to say to hell with it, and just drive Downtown? Especially when the light rail doesn't even get them near the center of Downtown, without having to transfer to an additional bus just to complete the trip? And what about people who don't own cars, and can't get to the light rail because RTD cut their bus route?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Thats the single biggest design flaw in the west line IMHO. I can't think of any good reason why that they couldn't have half the trains on the west line run Downtown to California St. The same way they do an the southeast and southwest lines. I guess they need to prop up their Union Station redevelopment some how.

The DT loop is at capacity and can't support additional trains. This is the sole reason that the West Line was built w/o the connector. To add additional capacity to the DT loop you have to put the rail lines on a separate grade either above or below the streets. Or you have to add another rail transit access line into DT from the south such as the old proposal for the Broadway connector, though that line would still likely involve going above or below grade through DT. Another possibility would be to eliminate the F line, increase the frequency of E, and also have the H go to Union Station, to provide the slots for trains from the West Corridor. Though this wouldn't support the train frequencies anticipated in 2030.

As for the bus lines, RTD will likely bring back the routes that elicit the most opposition. For the lines that serve marginal ridership in areas with declining populations or stagnating ones.... sucks to be you.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The DT loop is at capacity and can't support additional trains. This is the sole reason that the West Line was built w/o the connector. To add additional capacity to the DT loop you have to put the rail lines on a separate grade either above or below the streets. Or you have to add another rail transit access line into DT from the south such as the old proposal for the Broadway connector, though that line would still likely involve going above or below grade through DT. Another possibility would be to eliminate the F line, increase the frequency of E, and also have the H go to Union Station, to provide the slots for trains from the West Corridor. Though this wouldn't support the train frequencies anticipated in 2030.

Interesting. I'm sure thats RTDs story, but I don't buy it. The D, F, and H lines each run every 15 min. in rush hour. Thats a combined service of every 5 min. Last year, in order to accommodate four car trains the city retimed the the traffic lights downtown, from 1 min. 15 sec. to 1 min. 30 sec. cycles. That means that theoretically they should be able to push four car trains through the Downtown loop one train every minute and a half (same headway as the Mall Shuttles busses), or over 3x as many trains as now use the tracks. But nobody would expect them to do that. They would only need to run the trains at 3 min. intervals in order to accommodate the W Line trains. That would mean one train every second green light instead of every third green light. Which shouldn't be a big deal.

Which means that RTD is hold back on the capacity of the tracks, or they are just too lazy or incompetent to utilize the tracks to the full potential.

If they just can't handle that, then rerouting the H Line to Union Station would be the next best option. Since all the station except for two on the H Line already have duplicated service with the F line to Downtown. Whereas non of the stations on the W Line will have any direct service to Downtown.

[davebarnes]

You are going about this all wrong.

1. You assume that RTD thought this through. They did not.

2. RTD woke up one morning and said: "we have spent a lot of money on the trains and we need to get people to use them".
"Oh, I know. We will drop bus service 'near' the trains and everyone will then use the trains.

3. RTD has no clue what they are doing other than:
a. How to spend money.
b. "Trains good, buses bad."

[woob]

it is obvious that the focus of fasttracks has always been to encourage park-n-ride use and to raise property values for developers. they have shown no inclination to serve existing neighborhoods.