FREX bus service between Denver and Colorado Springs ends Aug.31. (Castle Rock: purchase, college)

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

KaBoom wrote:

Colorado Springs has the worst bus service of any city its size.

Apparently you've never ridden the bus in Virginia Beach!

No, I haven't ridden a bus in Virginia Beach. I've never even been to Virginia Beach. But I have Googled the web site for Hampton Roads Transit and here is what I found.

Virginia Beach busses run from 5AM - 1AM. Colorado Springs busses run from 6AM - 6PM.

Virginia Beach busses run seven days a week. Colorado Springs is the largest city in the US without Sunday bus service.

Virginia Beach has regional express busses to other cities. Colorado Springs is discontinuing theirs.

Hampton Roads Transit has a light rail system with plans to extend it to Virginia Beach. Colorado Springs has 30 year old plans to build a streetcar line. Which is probably no closer to getting built today then it was 30 years ago.

So I don't think that proves that there is a worse bus system then the Springs.

[CosmicWizard]

^^^^^^^I'm not trying to PROVE anything...just saying that Apparently you've never ridden the bus in Virginia Beach! The thought that one system might be worse than the other is a figment of your creative mind.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by smdensbcs

Is your position, then, that there is in fact a heavy demand for this FREX service, the buses are in fact full, and that "Colorado Springs" is ditching the service because of misguided ideological reasons?

Are you personally aware those FREX buses are full? I have no idea if they are or not, but I presume those who profess to know are not simply lying through their teeth for ideological reasons. If the service is underutilized and is not cost-efficient, it should be eliminated until the demand is there to make it viable. No? If people decided they no longer wanted to use the NY subways, should the city keep them running indefinitely?

What is the "it" Colorado Springs doesn't get? That they should be subsidizing a bunch of empty buses back and forth to/from Denver because public-transit, used or unused, is a good idea, even if people aren't using it? I'm obviously a bit confused here.

The ridership on FREX was just fine. It had the highest fair box recovery of any bus service in Colorado. But it will be shut down and then taxpayers will then have to pay 10 x more to expand I-25 to the handle the increased congestion. Hope the people who are happy about FREX getting getting shut down enjoy driving on I-25 in 20 years from now. Once its been expanded to a ten lane wide California style freeway with stop and go traffic all the way from Denver to the Springs.

During the study and comparison of peer services, it was shown that FREX has a relatively low daily ridership compared to the other systems. The service did, however, compare favorably in regard to the cost per hour with the other systems. FREX has a much higher farebox recovery ratio than the other systems, which is largely a policy decision with regard to commuter services. The study makes the following conclusions:

• Despite ridership decline in 2009, the overall trend during the past five years is one of increasing ridership.
• A decrease in ridership in 2009 could present an opportunity to reduce costs.
• Market research indicates a high level of satisfaction with the service.
• Operating cost trends do not indicate increases beyond expected.
• Revenue/cost ratio indicates a continuing strong passenger revenue return.

http://www.springsgov.com/units/tran...X_Analysis.pdf

[Mike from back east]

Divide and Conquer strikes again .... me me me I I I ...

IIRC, only COLO SPGS chipped in to cover the shortfall in fares vs cost to operate FREX, which is rather short sighted on the part of the other jurisdictions, but IMO is to be expected given the destructive impact of TABOR on public finances, and the Mayor of COLO SPGS has not only the state TABOR, but a local TABOR to make his job a daily joy.

A familiar story, from my days in the DC area, where the City of Fairfax refused to join the other entities that chipped in to have a METRO subway stop in their jurisdiction. The DC Metro (WMATA) is a hugely successful subway system that we used many times. The system has about 700,000 rider trips per day. So the people of Fairfax City have no stop, while Vienna and Oakton do and reap higher property taxes from the more valuable real estate near their stops.

If COLO SPGS was the only set of taxpayers chipping in, that's a shame. The issue of transportation and infrastructure is a REGIONAL issue that calls for a REGIONAL solution, where everyone chips in, one for all and all for one. But it won't happen until TABOR is dumped, and hopefully soon. Cue the ideological rants.

We had all sorts of bus and vanpool service in the DC area, some of which was supported in part by local governments as a cost avoidance instead of widening many highways. This was discussed in some detail in another thread.

We have rail lines running N/S along the Front Range, we have I-25 with it's way overloaded 2 lanes each way, and we have buses that can handle some of the load. But after 8-31-12 all we'll have is our cars, and as the population grows, all we'll have is gridlock.

[livecontent]

It is interesting about all these comment but how many of you have actually taken the FREX and how many of you have taken the FREX for other than your white collar commuting jobs. I have taken the bus 5 times, twice to the Springs and three times to the Castle Rock to the Factory Outlet Stores. These were pleasure trips and I found the service excellent. There were few people or none on the trips who where not commuters.

The problem started with Castle Rock which withdrew support and then there were no more stops in that town and the total support fell on the Springs. Castle Rock, being a very short sighted town, withdrew from RTD and than cancelled their own public transit service; it is a miserable town to get around if you cannot drive.

The mayor of Colorado Springs has said that he cancelled it because it only provided service to a limited class who can easily afford to drive and the money can be better spend to spread it around for all the citizens who have a real necessary need for public transit.

I see nothing wrong with subsidizing the upper classes as many of the transit routes in Denver exist only for the sole purpose to bring the higher paid to their jobs in Downtown and The DTC; they are also citizens and do pay most of the taxes. Public transit does not only exist to subsidized the poor, the disabled, the elderly and children and we really could not achieve that purpose without the fat fares and taxes paid by the wealthier.

Livecontent

[ryanek9freak]

Yea, tax the rich, that'll solve everything.

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

Yea, tax the rich, that'll solve everything.

If you go back and read it again, the poster was saying it's OK to subsidize rich commuters. Taxing the rich will obviously not solve everything, but neither will NOT taxing the rich solve everything, despite what they'd have you believe.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

Yea, tax the rich, that'll solve everything.

That is not what I said but if you have only the simple ability of comprehension and throw out a common blurb, so as to not to think with understanding a more complex statement, all I can say you are not worthy of a discourse.

Livecontent

[ryanek9freak]

Yet you just did it? Why should wealthier citizens, who obviously don't NEED the FREX service, be charged for it? I will not subsidize the transportation habits of others. The only way I'd ride mass transit is if personal automobiles somehow vanished overnight.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

Yet you just did it? Why should wealthier citizens, who obviously don't NEED the FREX service, be charged for it? I will not subsidize the transportation habits of others. The only way I'd ride mass transit is if personal automobiles somehow vanished overnight.

And why should low income citizens who can't afford a car be charged for roads that they can't drive on? Oh I get it, its OK for others to subsidize your transportation. Just not you, theirs.

If you don't want to subsidize the transportation habits of others, I suggest you move to a third world country with limited or no infrastructure. Otherwise deal with it.