Sprawl - Denver vs. Dallas (Aurora, Lakewood: HOA, houses, landscaping)

[bigdummy]

I live in the Dallas / Fort Worth area, and am considering moving to Denver next spring.

From reading this forum, it seems like the biggest complaint about Denver is the suburban sprawl...the boring, culture-less suburbs, the never ending concrete jungle of stripmalls and chain restaurants, etc...

I've never been to Denver, but am planning a visit soon. I'm just wondering, how bad is the sprawl compared to the D/FW area?

D/FW has the worst sprawl of anywhere I've ever been, so I can't imagine it being worse in Denver. I'm looking for opinions from people who have lived or spent time in both areas.

Thanks!

[Katarina Witt]

I would not call the suburbs "culture-less". Even small suburbs like Louisville get money from the SCFD tax (scientific and cultural facilties district) for community theater, concerts in the park, community orchestras, libraries, and so forth.

Some of the suburban housing is rather bland when it is built, but it gradually develops some character as the landscaping grows, paint colors change, additons are built. (Assuming an HOA doesn't forbid some of the above.)

I've only spent a small amount of time in Dallas, I couldn't really compare the two. The weather in metro Denver is definitely better.

[hello-world]

"cultureless", "bland", "overcommercialized", "overdeveloped" can of course be hyperbole. but hyperbole often succinctly conveys some truths. you can judge for yourself when you visit. louisville is one of the nicest looking suburbs in the area that i have seen. it can go from there to cartoon-like suburbia pretty quickly and generally, in my view.

[Stagger Lee]

what landscape grows in Denver that doesn't require the lawn have a sprinkler system? Denver is very sprawly, and most suburbs are very new and very lame. Some suburbs there do have theaters in the park and such, I remembered Golden did that. However, what percentage of suburban residents take advantage of that, and what actual suburbs there actually do that.

Denver is very sprawly.


amazingly cultural and fantastic highlands ranch. This place is like a city of the future. It has rec centers (newer fancier inside playgrounds for upper middle class families). This is the New American town.

http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/en...er_suburbs.jpg

http://www.jacqueline-oud.com/IMG/jp..._TVDC_USAf.jpg

Auroria-You can't get any more sprawlier then this area.

http://www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/50s...uroravanCO.jpg

Just look the area over on Google earth. Denver is not the urban sprawl capital, but it is very very sprawly.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Stagger Lee

what landscape grows in Denver that doesn't require the lawn have a sprinkler system? Denver is very sprawly, and most suburbs are very new and very lame. Some suburbs there do have theaters in the park and such, I remembered Golden did that. However, what percentage of suburban residents take advantage of that, and what actual suburbs there actually do that.
.

I doubt there is any higher percentage of Denver residents whipping off to the museums, DCPA, etc than in most suburbs. Suburbs that I know that "do that" off the top of my head, are: Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont Aurora, Northglenn. I think virtually all the burbs have summer concerts in their parks, which they wouldn't offer year after year if no one was attending them. The concerts in Louisville and Lafayette are very well attended. We tried to go to a dinner theater at the Broomfield Rec Center once and it was sold out.

[hello-world]

without splitting hairs (there are other threads where that is done ad nauseam, some might say), the fact is that denver metro is exceptionally suburban, with all the good and bad that comes with it. and it can look and feel and be a lot like the caricature of suburbia, even arguably within the city proper (16th street mall franchise strip, e.g.), and is known for being an especially "decentralized" metro area. denver has it's good and bad, depending on your perspective i guess. but yes, it is rather sprawling and suburban.

here something from the same site stagger lee cited; it might be a little dated, but relevant and maybe interesting to you:

Clickable Sprawl Map

i'm not sure about the bit in this article about growth containment legislation; it seems to me that development continues to proceed at a pretty aggressive clip.

[tfox]

Denver has lots of sprawl, true enough. But there are some limitations on it, and those limitations are likely to significantly affect land use in the coming decades.

Much of the foothills forested area to our west is either national forest, state forest, state parks, jefferson county open space, denver mountain parks, or other protected area. Boulder County now has all of its open lands protected -- some kudos are deserved there. Jefferson County has very little to no unprotected land today, although it's a crying shame that the Rooney Valley on the west end of Lakewood is now to be developed -- that should have been protected. Even the notorious Douglas County, that former "king of sprawl" -- has now got open-space religion and has put much of the southern half of the county under protection. To our east, the lowry bombing range is sadly going to be partially developed -- that is a shame, of course, but of that area, only about 10% will be open to development (adajcent to existing Aurora), and the other 90% in open space. That 90% will form a wall protecting the eastern plains from Aurora's aggressive expansion.

Sadly, it's not all good news. The city of Aurora seems committed to sprawl, of course, and continues to find ways to sprawl further to its southeast and northeast. The worst offender of all is Weld County -- they seem determined to pack as many subdivisions and big-box stores in the I-25 corridor as possible; and then of course pass the multi-billion dollar buck to CDOT to expand I-25 to accommodate those people. But other than profligate Weld, even our least enlightened neighbors do seem to have some sense that conservation needs to proceed ahead along with development.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by tfox

Denver has lots of sprawl, true enough. But there are some limitations on it, and those limitations are likely to significantly affect land use in the coming decades.

Much of the foothills forested area to our west is either national forest, state forest, state parks, jefferson county open space, denver mountain parks, or other protected area. Boulder County now has all of its open lands protected -- some kudos are deserved there. Jefferson County has very little to no unprotected land today, although it's a crying shame that the Rooney Valley on the west end of Lakewood is now to be developed -- that should have been protected. Even the notorious Douglas County, that former "king of sprawl" -- has now got open-space religion and has put much of the southern half of the county under protection. To our east, the lowry bombing range is sadly going to be partially developed -- that is a shame, of course, but of that area, only about 10% will be open to development (adajcent to existing Aurora), and the other 90% in open space. That 90% will form a wall protecting the eastern plains from Aurora's aggressive expansion.

Sadly, it's not all good news. The city of Aurora seems committed to sprawl, of course, and continues to find ways to sprawl further to its southeast and northeast. The worst offender of all is Weld County -- they seem determined to pack as many subdivisions and big-box stores in the I-25 corridor as possible; and then of course pass the multi-billion dollar buck to CDOT to expand I-25 to accommodate those people. But other than profligate Weld, even our least enlightened neighbors do seem to have some sense that conservation needs to proceed ahead along with development.

i suppose there might be some encouragement in seeing that the future might be conducted a bit more wisely than the past and present seem to have been!

about the last part, what makes you think "our least enlightened neighbors do seem to have some sense that conservation needs to proceed ahead along with development"?

the containment of sprawl - boulder, jeffco, etc open spaces - does seem to simply be resulting in development where ever else it is not contained and so an ever growing quilt of suburbia leapfrogging "open space" etc and resulting in yet more commuting, for example. you can see it today - this very day - along 36, up and down 287, along i25 and i70 along the front range and on out into the mountains. stunning how you pass through eisenhower tunnel to a gorgeous view of the mountain west, only to land right back in the strip malls of silverthorn and summit county! complete with bumper to bumper traffic and franchise america right there in the middle of the rockies!

a couple more links (hey - where'd this soap box come from? ):
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/pdf.cfm?ContentID=1302&FileName=DenverSprawlReport .pdf (broken link)
Denver Sprawl Study Estimates Smart Growth Policies Could Save Region $4 Billion in Road Expenses

and to curb any impulse to spiral into debate over merits of sprawl, it's been debated here!
//www.city-data.com/forum/gener...ing-curse.html

getting back to the question of whether sprawl is an issue in the denver metro area, i agree with the stagger lee suggestion of looking online at maps, google maps, and google earth depictions of it. and visit.

[bouldergranola]

I haven't lived in Dallas since 1996 but I remember a lot of my friends were building houses out in Tyler and Wylie; Plano was already very sprawly and a suburban mecca. When I moved there we lived in N. Dallas but quickly relocated to East Dallas (Lower Greenville) because we preferred interesting architecture and people.

Suburban Denver (like suburban Dallas) does have a lot of sprawl and not so many cultural offerings. If you concentrate on the urban neighborhoods, though, I think you will find what you seek. In my opinion, Highlands (in Denver) is a lot like Lower Greenville but you can walk to downtown Denver and to the ballpark.

[Broomfielder]

Denver does have a lot of suburban sprawl but it is a little different. One of the things you may notice when you visit is the lack of feeder roads here. As you are well aware, on the side of most highways in DFW is a feeder road with the stores lined up along the side of those roads. There aren't feeder roads in Denver which is bad during accidents but better for not getting that feeling of sameness when driving.
In addition, I agree with the previous poster about more small cultural offerings in the suburbs here. I've attended free ballet performances at the library auditorium in Broomfield. There are many small theater performances available. At least here in Broomfield there is a sense of community here. We all go to the same library and rec center. The town puts out a free paper 3 times a week which helps with the community feeling and learning about the concerts and events in town. Other towns like Louisville, Erie, and Parker have nice downtown areas.