Software / dev career prospects in the Denver area? (Westminster, Boulder: apartment, rent)

[ayoitzrimz]

Hello everyone,

I bet this has already been discussed to death but I want to throw my specific situation out there, and hope to get some feedback and advice.

I moved to NYC when I was 16 from Israel and have lived here ever since. Graduated with a masters in Computer Science. from NYU in 2012. My bachelors was in Economics but I quickly reversed course. I love what I do now, as a web developer / .NET application developer here in NYC.

I am 27 years old and live with my wife and our dog. No kids.

But I am just not a NYC guy. The hustle and bustle is too much for me and bad for my anxiety. People are rude (until they get to know you at least), and everything is soooo expensive. I'm not a museum / concert / nightlife guy and neither is my wife.

I am heavy into dog training, working with my GSD in obedience, tracking, and protection and love the outdoors - biking, hiking, etc.

I like to have a car and drive, and hate looking for parking in NYC. Also, why is everything soooo expensive? I live in Staten Island now because it was the only place where I can get a 2 bedroom apartment for $1600 a month. But the commute is long, traffic is terrible, and it seems like you need to jump through many hoops to get to anywhere.

Our financial situation: after socking away money for retirement, and putting a little in a savings account, then come rent, bills, metrocards, food etc, it really seems like we are living paycheck to paycheck. Now look, I'm reasonable and understand that between us trying to put away for retirement and savings and living in NYC it's impossible to have extra money left, but it really would be nice to have a little money left to buy ourselves something nice here and there. We don't even get to save that much. Maybe $600 per month for retirement (spread between 401k and Roth IRA) and $300-500 for savings. Here's the kicker: we make a combined 120k here. 120k and we still cannot afford a little extra?

Ok, rant over.

Now, I've been thinking Denver recently. I hear great things about the atmosphere, the weather (dry , low humidity, 300 days of sunshine, high temps midday, and we certainly don't mind the snow - in fact we like it), but I'm just not sure about the job prospects. Is there a market for a software developer with high level education but not much experience? I know there are lots of tech jobs in military related stuff but I do not have security clearance (I am a green card holder, with citizenship pending)...

So, how is the tech scene in Denver? Is it reasonable for me to expect to find a good career there? I prefer a steady income and stress free life over crazy hours and lots of money with no time to spend it. What is the job culture in Denver? Will they be reluctant to hire from out of state? Will it help if I do not require relocation assistance?

I guess I have many broad questions here but feel free to open this into a discussion. I'm new to the forum but will pay attention and try to answer any questions you have for me and much appreciate the responses and information!

[davebarnes]

rmiug-jobs : Rocky Mountain Internet Users Group - JOBS

10-30 jobs a day are posted

[ayoitzrimz]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

rmiug-jobs : Rocky Mountain Internet Users Group - JOBS

10-30 jobs a day are posted

Thanks for that, it will be a valuable resource once I start job hunting.

What type of tech jobs are there in CO excluding government jobs? Are we talking startups mostly? are there established software companies in Denver area? Are there expansions going on? Any direction the IT industry is heading in the area? I'd really love to get perspective from the people who live and work there.

[mic111]

I'd be surprised if you didn't get 3 or 4 offers right away. Depending on your skill set you may even be able to get a job from afar and have them move you. Get in contact with some of the recruiters from the web site above and have them take a look at your resume. They'll be able to give you an idea of how marketable you are and what you can likely earn.

Here's may take on your suitability for Denver. Your are an EXCELLENT match! I've been to Israel and being from there you won't be horrified by the brown dry weather. It is sort of like the hills in Turkey. In fact when I was last there I kind of thought I was back home here in CO.

In terms of personal time people in Denver value their personal time. Your co-workers will be hikers, bikers, skiers, mountain climbers etc. Everyone will be taking off in the evening to get their recreation in and no one will look askance when you do the same. In fact you may find yourself planning outings together.

Having a big dog is practically a requirement. Dog parks abound. Hiking and trail opportunities are everywhere and your dog will help you keep the mountain lions at bay.

The bad news is that rent can be expensive and you may not save much there, but you might get a nicer place. You will want to look for a place within walking or biking distance to work. Don't overlook Boulder for possible employment although it is alot more expensive.

What does your wife do?

[Bradburn1]

Depends on your skill set. Hiring for software people, especially Java, .Net, and Objective C is insane. You will find something for sure. The main tech areas in Denver are downtown Denver, the Denver Tech Center (30 min south of downtown), and Boulder/Interlocken (30 min north and west of downtown, Interlocken is in Broomfield). There are all types of tech companies here, the way things are now every company is a tech company. Salary range here for junior .Net developer (2-5 yrs experience) ranges from 50-70k.

Weather can't be beat here IMO of you want all 4 seasons, and has great quality of life, based on your interests, I think you will love it here.

[ayoitzrimz]

Great!!! I am so excited. Have a friend that lives in Boulder, so I will probably come up and check out the area. Like I said, it's all early planning so I really need to come visit before making decisions and looking for work but from what I read here it sounds like it would be perfect for us.

mic11: My wife is not too driven, not a career woman, but definitely works diligently. She works as a dental assistant, but has done some Accounts Payable work before that. I think she'll look to go into working in a medical office as an assistant or in the front desk / manager. She's still a bit lost, but you know, I consider myself very very lucky that I enjoy doing something that is also profitable and in demand and understand that not everyone is so fortunate. Even still, she is happy at work and will hopefully find something comparable in Denver or she'll try to find some entry level job in a company's finance department.

I did wonder about relocation assistance, but decided my prospects might be better if I just save up for the move (which I have been doing since deciding to leave NYC) so that I do not require relo assistance.

Thanks for posting the areas to look for Bradburn1 - that will surely come helpful. Not sure what else I can add but I am curious more about how dog friendly Denver is as a city - leash laws, off leash hours, dog parks? In NYC a dog park is a 10' by 10' fenced lot with some benches where owners come and sit while the dogs awkwardly forced into situations that they do not enjoy and I avoid those places like the plague.

Man, this place is a cesspool. Are there many ex new yorkers in Denver? Do you find that people in general are moving in or moving out of the region? Where are they coming from? Where are they going to? Please feel free to post your experience here

[alliern]

I was born, raised and lived on Staten Island for 35 years before moving out here 4.5 years ago. My husband still owns an insurance agency/financial planning firm on Forest Ave. and travels back every other week to keep a face-to-face presence for his clients. My advice to you is pack your bags and move to Colorado! The quality of life is SO much better here.

Having said that, I also have to say that your everyday living expenses will not be much different. Food, clothes, recreational equipment, etc. will cost the same. Have you thought about purchasing a home so that you can start building equity? It sounds as if you are thinking about retirement and making sound decisions in that regard but spending $20K/yr on rent and getting nothing back for it. I know...Staten Island is not someplace that you probably wanted to purchase a home

I never get tired of looking at/living in the mountains in comparison to the ugly, build whatever you want no matter what it looks like garbage in SI. The hiking, biking, skiing is great here. I have many life-long childhood friends that still live on SI mainly because of their chosen careers...cops, firemen. So they are stuck until they retire. I agree with you that people in SI are rude until you get to know them. But, they are more genuine and will have your back in an instant once you do get to know them. People out here are more friendly to your face (will say hello or wave) but less genuine and are more selfish... I know a lot of people who pull into their garage in their subdivision in Denver and never interact with their neighbors. When we moved here, we wanted to feel like we really made a change and that moving 2,000 miles away from everything I've known was worth it. I didn't want to live 10ft. away from my neighbors in a house that look like every third or fourth house. So, we moved about 35 minutes west of Denver to a great town and feel like we are on a vacation that has lasted 4.5 years so far.

Good luck with your decision. I don't think you'll be making a mistake if you decide to leave the NYC rat race!

[ELCO5280]

I was part of many Schutzhund clubs with my two GSD; so CO is perfect for that.

[ayoitzrimz]

alliern: how awesome to already speak to someone who made the exact same move I did. And we'll surely be looking for an RE agent if/when we decide to move so let's befriend each other for future contact.

You are quite right, I've wanted to buy a house for quite some time but few things stand in my way:
1. location - you hit the nail on the head in that I do not want to buy a house in NYC and definitely not in Staten Island.
2. down payment - I want to save 15%-20% for a down payment and have yet to start that process.

What am I waiting for? Well, my money seems to go other places. Rainy day fund, retirement savings, and bills chew up most of my income.

I was always curious just how do people save 20% for down payment?? If we are talking about a 500k house (minimum in SI) then how do people put away 100k? It just seems so crazy to me Do people take out loans to pay for the down payment? I don't know much but there's no way you can use credit to pay for down payment to take out credit. I mean, that has to not be allowed right?

Since we immigrated 11 years ago, no one in my family owns a home so I simply don't have anyone to ask about these things...

[mic111]

Leash laws are required in most cities. The only exceptions are the off-leash dog parks. But we have some great ones!

Westminster has a 420 acre off leash dog park. This is near Broomfield/Interlocken.
City of Westminster > Parks/Rec > Parks > Park Locations > Westminster Hills Off-Leash Dog Park

Cherry Creek Reservoir (near the DTC) has a really popular off-leash dog park that is good sized. One of our ex-foster dogs plays there alot. Here is a video. I think the off-leash dog area is 60 acres.

DOG PARK Cherry Creek State Park - Centennial Colorado - Doggy Park - NO LEASHES - YouTube

Chatfield Reservoir (SW part of the city near Littleton) has a 69 acre off leash dog park.
Dog Off-Leash Area at Chatfield | Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Those are the big ones that I know of. There are 3 near my house that are about an acre but we have an acre yard so don't need them. Of course you can go hiking and camping in the National Forest (free camping at any boondock location and your dog can run free if they are well trained and don't chase the wildlife or the other campers). It doesn't take more than a couple of hours to get to good boondock locations for camping.

Boulder county trails are mostly leash free. You have to get an off leash dog tag but they are insanely easy to get. No training required or any voice control (even though they say it is required they don't test for it) so sometimes you have trouble with the off leash dogs there. But many choices of off-leash trails. OSMP - Dogs

Alot of the good hiking close in is at Jefferson County Open Space trails and they do have leash laws which makes them easier to use for those of us who have dogs that don't care to have off-leash dogs jumping on them. Another big advantage is that they are not as crowded. You can really feel like you've gotten away from ot all even if you only drove 30 min. to get there.