North Metro rail line appears to be a 'go' (Denver: living in, cost of)

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

I take the bus so I cannot speak to the situation with the rail lines.

Suffice it to say, that just as I did when I lived in the NYC/North Jersey metro, I chose housing based on the availability of mass transit. I chose not to live any farther east than where I am because there is no bus that goes out that far. I want to be able to walk to the bus stop.
But, hey, that's just me.

Many areas of Adams county are well served by bus service and thousands of people use it everyday. It will eventually have rail but criticizing and complaining and never using the system means an empty opinion.

I have been using the systems for decades and when there was no rail. I was still impressed by how they worked and the expanse of coverage. I know very well the coverage today as I have a frequent transit user to all places, including Adams County to to the North.

I also made the choice when I bought my house to live within walking range of a major bus route. I knew there would be times when the car was in the shop and I always advocated a carfree or a carless lifestyle. My decision has paid off over the years as I drove much less, saved money and had backup for emergencies. I made a commitment many years ago to not drive at least one day of the week and my cars have lasted longer and I got more exercise in walking to the bus.

I would advise readers in looking for a place to live try to take public transit into the decision. You will never know when the need for public transit may become a necessity as opposed to an option. I became disabled quickly and suddenly and then there was a necessity of travel when I could barely walk or drive. Access-a-Ride, the RTD bus for the disabled, was there to pick me up at home. Access-a-Ride provides service if you live within 3/4 mile of a fixed public transit route. If I made another choice and lived farther away from public transit, many years ago, I would not have had this service.

Luck has showed on my choice which could never have been foreseen when I bought my house. I will be within 1/3 mile to a new rail station. I would also suggest to readers to investigate where the new stations will be located because buying a home nearby may be a good investment.

Now I serve as a advocate for public transit and are helping RTD make the system work better.

Livecontent

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by livecontent

So, I see another ridiculous whining post from coloradoalimony with your response. Many areas of Adams county are well served by bus service and thousands of people use it everyday. It will eventually have rail but criticizing and complaining and never using the system means an empty opinion.

I have been using the systems for decades and when there was no rail. I was still impressed by how they worked and the expanse of coverage. I know very well the coverage today as I have a frequent transit user to all places, including Adams County to to the North.

I also made the choice when I bought my house to live within walking range of a major bus route. I knew there would be times when the car was in the shop and I always advocated a carfree or a carless lifestyle. My decision has paid off over the years as I drove much less, saved money and had backup for emergencies. I made a commitment many years ago to not drive at least one day of the week and my cars have lasted longer and I got more exercise in walking to the bus.

I would advise readers in looking for a place to live try to take public transit into the decision. You will never know when the need for public transit may become a necessity as opposed to an option. I became disabled quickly and suddenly and then there was a necessity of travel when I could barely walk or drive. Access-a-Ride, the RTD bus for the disabled, was there to pick me up at home. Access-a-Ride provides service if you live within 3/4 mile of a fixed public transit route. If I made another choice and lived farther away from public transit, many years ago, I would not have had this service.

Luck has showed on my choice which could never have been foreseen when I bought my house. I will be within 1/3 mile to a new rail station. I would also suggest to readers to investigate where the new stations will be located because buying a home nearby may be a good investment.

Now I serve as a advocate for public transit and are helping RTD make the system work better.

Livecontent

Thank you for this. Proximity to public transportation played a huge role in where I chose to live.
With gas prices what they are I would have been an idiot not to take advantage of the transit subsidies offered by my employer. Not to mention, when the weather is bad, I just do not want to drive.

I do understand paying for something and not getting what was promised. I really do.
But, to use an old adage, "to throw the baby out with the bathwater" is IMHO simply being thick-headed.
RTD and Denver are attempting to do something that far too few major metros are trying to do, let alone have any interest in doing. Of course growing pains are to be expected.

Overall, they get a big thumbs up from me.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Somehow, I don't think a separate bus system would allow Boulder County, and especially Boulder, to provide the level of services they do now. I seriously doubt they'd be able to build a rail system.

Of course it would provide the same level of service. Actually a higher level of service. All of that money would be staying in Boulder County. Not leaving the county to build rail lines in Denver.

Would it be enough money to build a rail system in Boulder County? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that Boulder would have a better chance, then waiting for RTD to get around to extending the Denver Metro rail network into Boulder County in 2042.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Katiana

^^Yes, I knew that, but that doesn't prove that Boulder/Boulder Co/Broomfield Co pays more in than it gets back. If anything, stuff like that shows that Boulder, if not the rest of the county, is getting a pretty good return.

Boulder County tax payers have paid about $100 million in FasTracks sales tax since 2005, and have gotten zero back so far. You can't see how bad a deal that is? Do you really consider zero to be a good return?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Boulder County tax payers have paid about $100 million in FasTracks sales tax since 2005, and have gotten zero back so far. You can't see how bad a deal that is? Do you really consider zero to be a good return?

Considering the current state of Fastracks, I think most people in the metro could say that. Only a few areas are currently served by rail.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by DenverLawGal

I'm super psyched for the new free downtown shuttle.

Why? There is already a free Downtown shuttle on the 16th St mall. You would rather ride on a bus that runs every five minutes in mixed traffic, then a mall bus that comes every 2 minutes? Do you realize how much time that is going to add to your commute?

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Considering the current state of Fastracks, I think most people in the metro could say that. Only a few areas are currently served by rail.

It sounds like you just love to pay tax money to RTD for nothing.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Of course it would provide the same level of service. Actually a higher level of service. All of that money would be staying in Boulder County. Not leaving the county to build rail lines in Denver.

Would it be enough money to build a rail system in Boulder County? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that Boulder would have a better chance, then waiting for RTD to get around to extending the Denver Metro rail network into Boulder County in 2042.

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Boulder County tax payers have paid about $100 million in FasTracks sales tax since 2005, and have gotten zero back so far. You can't see how bad a deal that is? Do you really consider zero to be a good return?

Right now the taxes generated in Boulder County are helping build rail lines in other areas of the metro area. So what? Eventually tax money generated elsewhere will be used to build the Boulder County portion of FastTrax.

The Boulder County portion is expected to cost $1.4 billion. At the rate Boulder County is generating tax revenue ($100 million over 8 years), it will take 70 years for them to generate enough tax revenue to build the Boulder County portion by themselves. Getting rail by 2042 seems to be a bargain to me.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

It sounds like you just love to pay tax money to RTD for nothing.

Can you show me a tax structure anywhere on the planet where everyone gets exactly what they put in every year?

[coloradoalimony]

Originally Posted by davidv

Right now the taxes generated in Boulder County are helping build rail lines in other areas of the metro area. So what? Eventually tax money generated elsewhere will be used to build the Boulder County portion of FastTrax.

The Boulder County portion is expected to cost $1.4 billion. At the rate Boulder County is generating tax revenue ($100 million over 8 years), it will take 70 years for them to generate enough tax revenue to build the Boulder County portion by themselves. Getting rail by 2042 seems to be a bargain to me.

1) RTD has made it clear that without a tax increase, rail will NEVER be built to the north metro. The 2042 prediction was made several years ago, before RTD decided to build even more light rail in the south metro. Light rail is NOT self-sustaining, which means money that could have been used to add a train to Boulder now must be used to build and maintain the south metro lines. Again, without a tax increase, there will NEVER be rail service to Boulder. That is why RTD is trying so hard to sell the absolutely stupid BRT concept to the north metro.

2) Do you really think the rest of the metro area has generated enough revenue to build all the lines that have been built down there? You clearly don't understand all of the funding mechanisms. The FasTracks tax revenue from the *entire* metro area has not even covered a fourth of the cost of the rail that has been built down there. Federal grants, bonds, fare revenue, and taxes are all part of the mix. RTD screwed up by using every cent of their bonding capacity on the south metro, now they have egg on their faces and a mutiny on their hands because the north metro is sick and tired of empty promises. RTD CANNOT build a rail line to Boulder, not this year, not ten years from now, not in 2042, because the running costs of the current systems, plus bond repayment, suck every cent of revenue they have coming in. As bonds are paid down, they *still* won't be able to issue enough in new bonds to build rail to the north, because the maintenance/repair/replacement of the current system is sinking them.