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Old 11-29-2007, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
5,610 posts, read 22,080,413 times
Reputation: 5414

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I can't remember reading one post from someone who hates Denver on City Data. On the LA forums there is at least one person per page of threads.
I don't want to name names here-- since I don't want to start a flame war here, but there's one extremely prolific poster on the CO forum who I had in mind. It's probably only a matter of time before he chimes in here. And that's cool-- he does have a unique perspective-- I want to hear all different points of view. But yeah, you're right, in general there is very little to complain about with Denver, at least when you're comparing Denver to other big cities. Some people don't like living in a large metropolitan area and would rather live in a rural area, but that's an apples-oranges comparison. You should see the Phoenix forum sometime-- thread after thread after thread of people bashing the place! While this is just an internet forum, it hints at the feelings that are out there in the real world.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:53 PM
 
13 posts, read 31,783 times
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Thank you, DenverAztec, for those awesome photos!
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:00 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 27,881,133 times
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OK, Vegaspilgrim, I'll take the bait. I will freely admit that Denver is not my favorite place, but I will absolutely agree with you that there are a lot of places much worse. Right now, I think you are living in one of them (Phoenix). If you like big cities (which you have already deduced that I do not), Denver offers quite a bit.

Now, about that English degree. I get darned sick of people putting themselves down because they don't have whatever the "in" degree is at the moment. Go check and see what a lot of people working in various fields have for degrees. In many cases, you will find that their degree is in some discipline not even remotely related to what they do for a living. I have hired a lot of people in my time in management. Sure, technical knowledge is important, but what most employers look for in an employee is someone who is honest, reliable, energetic, willing to work hard, has good common sense, knows HOW to learn, and will see something through to the end. A college degree in any field (especially with a good GPA) shows an employer that the degree holder has enough of all of those qualities just mentioned to see something through to a positive conclusion. I worked for years in a field where a business or accounting degree might be the "best" fit. Some of the employees that I had held degrees in teaching, oceanography, art, just to name a few. Some of my peers had degrees in law, library science, criminology, and a host of other degrees only thinly related to their field of employment. They all did quite well at their jobs.

Truth is, if a person is willing to work, is willing to learn, and can communicate (THERE is the use for that English degree), success shouldn't be a problem. It does take some flexibility, too. My Dad told me something that I always have remembered: You can live exactly where you want or do exactly what you want, but few are the people who are lucky enough to be able to do both (and he was actually one of the lucky ones). There are always the trade-offs.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:00 PM
 
2,755 posts, read 12,383,070 times
Reputation: 1505
Vegas,

I guess you've surmised from previous posts that I do like Denver. I haven't really lived in many other places, I'll admit -- I spent a few months working on a project in Phoenix, and it wasn't my favorite place, true enough, though I did have a great time there.

I actually do think that long-term, it's better to find a place you're really into and stay there. Since you have family here, it does make it even more attractive for you.

From my perspective, though, I'd probably be willing to try the adventure of working somewhere else for a year or so, if something good came up. I'd like the adventure of the new surroundings, learn some new interests, and if it's a good opportunity, why not? Even so, I'm sure I'd end back up here before too long.

If you really like Denver, then I suggest you take that attitude. Who knows what your future might hold. Be open; be adventurous -- but only for a couple of years. From that point, plan on how you'll root yourself where you want to be, if that's here; then so much the better.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:43 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 14,552,903 times
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Vegaspilgrim,

I want to say to you, why would you want a Finance Degree?? If you have a degree in English--Just so you will have "...some business education to supplement my undergrad degree.." That to me is a pretty poor reason to pursue a graduate degree. Have you taken any accounting, finance, economic courses as an undergrad?? Do have any interest in this field, other than you believe "...The thought was this would open me up to a wide range of entry level jobs..." again to me a pretty poor reason to study finance. Especially, as you mentioned the cost could be a problem.

A finance degree would be useful if it added to an undergrad degree in business or if you are already working in the field and you want higher qualification for upper level position.

Remember you would have to take some undergrad core courses to come up to speed for a graduate finance degree, unless it was not a very good degree program.

I would suggest---get a job in a company, somewhat in that field. Take some undergrad finance, accounting, economic courses--let your employer pay for some--and if you are valuable to them, maybe they will pay for the grad degree. The experience will make you more appealing to an employer, even if you do not pursue a degree in finance.

I think a grad degree with experience is much more valuable to an employer.

Livecontent
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,373 posts, read 112,888,807 times
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I"ll come back and say "go for it" somewhere else, if that's your calling right now. Both my kids went out of state to college. One came back for grad school. One came back after two years, now talks of leaving again. That's what you're supposed to do in your twenties. When I visit the Pittsburgh forum, I find it sad that so many people there have never lived anywhere else and spend so much energy expressing why no one should live anywhere else.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
5,610 posts, read 22,080,413 times
Reputation: 5414
Thanks for your posts, jazzlover and tfox. You both have great points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
It does take some flexibility, too. My Dad told me something that I always have remembered: You can live exactly where you want or do exactly what you want, but few are the people who are lucky enough to be able to do both (and he was actually one of the lucky ones). There are always the trade-offs.
I totally agree. I guess that's the truth of life. Let me ask you though, do you think it is reasonable to want to always remain within the Western US-- even if I was willing to relocate within this giant region? After all, CO is just one of the 11 or 12 western states (or at least I what consider "the west"-- I know there are different definitions ). And Denver is just one of many western cities. Or, do you think if I already opened myself that far... I might as well extend that to the whole country? or the whole world? Do you think there is anything inherently special about being in the West in general-- beyond just one particular state or another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfox View Post
From my perspective, though, I'd probably be willing to try the adventure of working somewhere else for a year or so, if something good came up. I'd like the adventure of the new surroundings, learn some new interests, and if it's a good opportunity, why not? Even so, I'm sure I'd end back up here before too long.

If you really like Denver, then I suggest you take that attitude. Who knows what your future might hold. Be open; be adventurous -- but only for a couple of years. From that point, plan on how you'll root yourself where you want to be, if that's here; then so much the better.
Paradoxically, there is one big reason why it might be a good idea for me NOT to live in Denver immediately after I graduate: chances are, I'd be pressured into living back with my parents, at least at first, especially if I enrolled in another degree program at CU Denver or DU or moved to Denver and couldn't immediately find a job to support myself. I love them, and wanting to have family nearby is one of my top reasons for wanting to eventually "settle down" in Denver, but right now I really need to be on my own-- they are trying to micromanage my life.

While I think that getting an additional degree in a business-related field could be a good option for me, they think I MUST get a business degree RIGHT NOW, or I'll be a loser my whole life. They keep telling me that I can't even get any good job with just an English degree, that I'm "too good" to do the jobs I could get, and that if I don't get a master of finance or an mba RIGHT NOW, I never will. They keep saying that they've been around more, they know what the world is like and I don't. Each day now, I'm starting to think that what they're saying is BS-- that if I managed to find a good entry level job, work in the real world for a few years (which is the standard procedure anyway)-- I would have a better idea of what I want to eventually do, I would be able to get into better MBA programs ("Leeds School of Business" at CU Boulder instead of CU Denver's "College of Business"), and I'd probably get more out of the program. I kind of feel like my brain is fried out of going to school.

The problem is, I don't have a plan to counter their plan... I still don't know what kind of job I can/should get. I still think that real estate development (especially commercial development) interests me the most-- but I don't know how to break into that particular field with no experience and no business degree. I'm sure there is a way, and I'm looking-- I just haven't discovered it yet. I not exactly physically cut out for blue collar construction work either (which seems to be done by illegal immigrant labor anyway). Point is... it's bad enough living over 900 miles away, being virtually leashed on the cellphone. If I happened to find a job here and stayed here in phoney-icks for another year or two, or moved to an entirely different city (Vegas?), as least I can continue to turn off the bs from my parents with the press of a single button. Although, that still doesn't answer the question of what do I do?
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Denver
1,082 posts, read 4,512,472 times
Reputation: 554
Re "no one hates Denver". Ok, here I am. I have lived here since 1971, but also lived in Ohio, Oregon, Illinois. Just the last couple of years, I am ready to leave.

But to answer the poster's question where would I live? I would like a different climate with "soft" air, as a southerner called it. I am tired of the sun baked atmosphere and prefer the ocean to the mountains. I think guys like it here more than women, but lots of women live here as well. So I would go not to a large city, but first choice, Portland Oregon or August Maine. If I could afford it I would live on the Ocean in La Jolla, or Long Beach.

If you really want to live here, I would suggest thinking carefully about a career. Denver and Colorado's major employers are cyclical--software, oil gs & mining, finance and tourism. For that reason, the finance idea is good. Sadly Denver or Colorado really does not need another real estate broker, investor, developer, mortgage lender or anything like that. As far as I am concerned, that industry has owned and ruined the state. Owning a transportation business is a winner because we are far from anywhere. Also the rural areas of the state are in great need of public finance managers, health care professionals, and things like that. Another solid possibility is a librarian degree.

P.S. I am a parent of three kids your age. You should do what you want when you want to, because they had their chance and they are just trying to give you the benefit of their mistakes. The world is a different place--if I was 19 I think I would become a plumber, mechanic, or some other trade first and then consider what else I might want to do or what the world needed me to do. the skilled trades are in demand but not housing construction.

Good luck.

Last edited by esya; 11-30-2007 at 12:59 AM.. Reason: answer another question
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
5,610 posts, read 22,080,413 times
Reputation: 5414
Oops... skipped over your post livecontent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
I want to say to you, why would you want a Finance Degree?? If you have a degree in English--Just so you will have "...some business education to supplement my undergrad degree.." That to me is a pretty poor reason to pursue a graduate degree. Have you taken any accounting, finance, economic courses as an undergrad?? Do have any interest in this field, other than you believe "...The thought was this would open me up to a wide range of entry level jobs..." again to me a pretty poor reason to study finance. Especially, as you mentioned the cost could be a problem.
I believe that a finance degree would be my ticket into working for a developer, a REIT, or a property management company (like the companies who own malls and lease space out). I also think that despite currently majoring in English (which I hate btw-- I don't even like what I'm studying), a totally different field, I would be successful in finance. I actually used to be the math/science/computer geek kid-- all the way up until senior year high school, when I started developing additional interests and going in a different direction. Four years later, now that I've got all that literature and philosophy and religion out of my system, I feel that going back into a more quantitative field would be both practical and refreshing.

For a long time my plan was "I guess I'll go to law school." As soon as I figured out being a lawyer was NOT what I really wanted, I went back to the drawing board, and came up with finance. Also, if for some reason the real estate thing didn't pan out (after all, that industry goes through major boom and bust cycles), I could work as a financial analyst for almost any kind of industry.

Quote:
Remember you would have to take some undergrad core courses to come up to speed for a graduate finance degree, unless it was not a very good degree program.
That's exactly what I'm doing this year. I'm taking Financial Accounting right now. It doesn't exactly pump me up with adrenaline, but I can understand why it's important to know some accounting basics-- it's the language of business. I've taken macro and micro economics-- pretty interesting. I like the way economists view the world. It is a lot more logical, clear, and refreshing than the "postmodernism" humanities majors get indoctrinated in. Next semester, in addition to finishing up my last English classes, I'm signed up for managerial accounting, Calculus III, and an upper division statistics class.

Quote:
I would suggest---get a job in a company, somewhat in that field. Take some undergrad finance, accounting, economic courses--let your employer pay for some--and if you are valuable to them, maybe they will pay for the grad degree. The experience will make you more appealing to an employer, even if you do not pursue a degree in finance.
Keep in mind, I'll be fresh out of college, with ZERO experience. How do you get a job doing finance with no finance experience and no education in finance? I'm part of a club called the American Marketing Association at ASU, where I hear every single week about different sales jobs different companies are hiring for. Things like working for Alliance Beverage Co. trying to convince bars to serve Jose Cuervo instead of Sauza. Or working for Pepsi bottling companies convincing convenience stores to sell flavored Aquafina water. These are jobs that even marketing students-- a business major-- are going into. If the choice was do that... or live on the streets and eat out of the dumpster behind McDonalds, then obviously, I'd take the water salesman job. But, especially if I had a degree in finance, there has got to be something better than that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by esya View Post
If you really want to live here, I would suggest thinking carefully about a career. Denver and Colorado's major employers are cyclical--software, oil gs & mining, finance and tourism. For that reason, the finance idea is good. Sadly Denver or Colorado really does not need another real estate broker, investor, developer, mortgage lender or anything like that. As far as I am concerned, that industry has owned and ruined the state. Owning a transportation business is a winner because we are far from anywhere. Also the rural areas of the state are in great need of public finance managers, health care professionals, and things like that. Another solid possibility is a librarian degree.
There is no doubt you are right. However, you could argue that the Denver, Colorado, the USA, and the World doesn't "need" anyone. It certainly doesn't "need" me. Colorado-- and the world-- is overpopulated as it is. I'm sure the world would be better off if I decided to jump off of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon tomorrow morning and end it all than if I turned into another real estate developer. However, that's NOT my plan. In the meantime, people will still continue to move to CO, and they need a place to live. If I did become a real estate developer, I wouldn't want to be just any old run of the mill developer-- I'd want to become the best developer there ever was-- building something of quality-- a place meant to last. Development doesn't have to equal sprawl either; there's urban redevelopment too.
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Old 11-30-2007, 02:15 AM
 
163 posts, read 741,974 times
Reputation: 84
The outsider here again...

Ok, real quick. I understand how you feel about being in the West, same here. I just for whatever reasons can't see myself on the east coast or in the south. Not that there's anything wrong with those places, but I like being near the mountains, love the weather, like being able to get to the snow, etc. etc.
Just seems weird if I try imagining living in Texas or Florida or Boston or whatever. So if that's how you feel, stay in the West, you can alway visit and vacation to all the other places in the country!

Oh and yes it is reasonable, some people (many people) spend their entire lives in one city!


So, stay in the west, go back to Denver, and get A job in some type of commercial development company. Just get in the door, that's how you break in if you have no experience. Don't think about it, just do it. Let them know that you really want to work in the industry, you don't have any experience but you are eager to learn, and what can you do in the company to get your foot in? Denver's a big and growing city, I'm sure there will plenty of opportunities to get in and people to interview with.

Nevermind your parents. I don't know how else to say it, they are just doing what they do...being parents. They almost always mean well and have good intentions but that does not mean you should give up ANY dreams or goals you have just because they don't get it. And that's ok if they don't get it. My Mom thought I was supposed to be an architect because I took an intro. to architectural drawing class in 10th grade and thought it was interesting

Quote:
Each day now, I'm starting to think that what they're saying is BS-- that if I managed to find a good entry level job, work in the real world for a few years (which is the standard procedure anyway)-- I would have a better idea of what I want to eventually do, I would be able to get into better MBA programs ("Leeds School of Business" at CU Boulder instead of CU Denver's "College of Business"), and I'd probably get more out of the program.
There you go. Don't worry about not having a plan to counter their plan, it's your life. See above about neverminding your parents
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