Do Stapleton's wide streets make traffic more dangerous? (Denver, Center: cul-de-sac, 2014)

[stricklandia]

Stapleton and Conservatory Green are on our list of places to consider. For those of you who live in Stapleton (or CG), what is your opinion on this article, published in Westword yesterday? Is speeding a real problem there? What are some of the other "cons" to living there?

"A new study of the Stapleton neighborhood, Denver's nationally acclaimed infill project, concludes that key traffic engineering decisions have encouraged high-speed driving rather than traffic "calming," made residential areas less safe and generally worked against efforts to develop the area as a showcase of New Urbanism -- a design ethos that emphasizes walkability, bike and transit use, and community-oriented development."

Do Stapleton neighborhood's wide streets make traffic more dangerous? | Westword

[Count David]

And it turns out some don't think Stapleton as New Urbanism is really New Urbanism at all.

Study finds new urban Stapleton might not be so pedestrian-oriented - The Denver Post

[davebarnes]

YES
Street Design — Local Government Commission
Narrow Streets Slow Traffic - Sprawl - Sierra Club

[denverian]

I don't understand what they're talking (complaining) about. I live in Stapleton and my street is so narrow that with cars parked on both sides (which is normally the case), if two cars are going in opposite directions, one car typically pulls over to let the other car pass. Or you have to really slow down as you pass because the cars will come within inches of each other. Similar to driving down Cap. Hill streets.

I read the article and it talked about people speeding on MLK and Central Park Blvd. Those are major streets. I thought the article was just complaining for the sake of complaining. You obviously can't please everyone.

[SkyDog77]

I have friends who live on 35th and there is certainly a lot of speeding on their street.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by stricklandia

Stapleton and Conservatory Green are on our list of places to consider. For those of you who live in Stapleton (or CG), what is your opinion on this article, published in Westword yesterday? Is speeding a real problem there? What are some of the other "cons" to living there?

"A new study of the Stapleton neighborhood, Denver's nationally acclaimed infill project, concludes that key traffic engineering decisions have encouraged high-speed driving rather than traffic "calming," made residential areas less safe and generally worked against efforts to develop the area as a showcase of New Urbanism -- a design ethos that emphasizes walkability, bike and transit use, and community-oriented development."

Do Stapleton neighborhood's wide streets make traffic more dangerous? | Westword

Stapleton is big. There obviously has to be major streets with higher speed limits. We don't generally have speeding problems on our residential street. Certain streets that go through to major streets will have more traffic than streets that don't connect to major streets, but that's the same as any neighborhood. I didn't understand the point of the article, other that somebody hates Stapleton.

[robertgoodman]

Yes there's legitimate criticism of Stapleton, it's not perfect. The road layout was one aspect that people have been critical of before, during, and after development. They did a weird compromise between the Cul-de-sac/Collector/Arterial model dominant in the suburbs, and the grid model in most north american urban areas. Additionally, the arterial streets are wide almost to the point of absurdity. Those things combine to make less safe traffic patterns than you would see in more urban areas.

Not much can be done about the grid where things have been built, but the ROW space allocation can be altered. I lived there for about a year and found the road layout to be obnoxious, additionally I abhorred the shopping center layouts, but there's several things that they did well. Like anything it's a compromise.

[Texas Ag 93]

Originally Posted by robertgoodman

Yes there's legitimate criticism of Stapleton, it's not perfect. The road layout was one aspect that people have been critical of before, during, and after development. They did a weird compromise between the Cul-de-sac/Collector/Arterial model dominant in the suburbs, and the grid model in most north american urban areas. Additionally, the arterial streets are wide almost to the point of absurdity. Those things combine to make less safe traffic patterns than you would see in more urban areas.

Not much can be done about the grid where things have been built, but the ROW space allocation can be altered. I lived there for about a year and found the road layout to be obnoxious, additionally I abhorred the shopping center layouts, but there's several things that they did well. Like anything it's a compromise.

I agree. We have been in Stapleton just under 2 years. I think the traffic issues are the same/no worse than any area where you have a great deal of traffic (both vehicular and pedestrian/bike).

Things the Stapleton Developer (Forest City) did well, IMO: 29th Town Center (parking not great, though), parks, greenspace, walking trails, pools.

Things that are poorly done: hydrology and drainage along the greenspaces (which is causing a major mosquito problem, albeit one that the city should now be responsible for), shopping centers (esp the AWFUL Quebec Square).

[wong21fr]

Central Park Blvd and MLK are akin to Broadway and Speer Blvd: none of these roads are pedestrian friendly and people drive like fiends on them. The design choice to this way may have been shortsighted design, but so was allowing the residents to keep 35th from becoming a thru street and leaving MLK as the only thru E/W street in Stapleton and a little mini-highway. NIMBY-ism can have this unintended result.

[sbelvedere]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Central Park Blvd and MLK are akin to Broadway and Speer Blvd: none of these roads are pedestrian friendly and people drive like fiends on them. The design choice to this way may have been shortsighted design, but so was allowing the residents to keep 35th from becoming a thru street and leaving MLK as the only thru E/W street in Stapleton and a little mini-highway. NIMBY-ism can have this unintended result.

I am not very familiar with the history of Stapleton's design, but the lack of thru streets is what differentiates a lot of suburbia from urban design to me. Even in the western suburbs there is 20th, 26th, 32nd, 38th, and 44th which go almost all the way from Youngfield out west to I25. I shudder to think of how much traffic would be redirected onto 32nd, which is roughly aligned with MLK, if you could not take 26th or 38th instead.