Why is Denver so segregated?? (Aurora, Wheat Ridge: middle-class, real estate, crime)

[cityboy2010]

I know it's not quite as bad as some other major cities (Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, etc.), but in the past week I've just began to notice how segregated we really are as a city. Like south-central Denver and downtown is very white. Northeast and East Denver and very black- almost no white people there. North Denver, West Denver, and Southwest Denver are very Hispanic...I mean I know there's such thing as 'ethnic enclaves', but it seems that Denver just segregates itself based on race primarily.

And the gentrification of Five Points didn't help in my opinion...it just created an income disparity in the neighborhood between the same old poverty, but now, ALAS, their neighbors are yuppies who know nothing about the area or have respect for it.

Any thoughts as to why Denver is like this?

[livecontent]

You seem to be very obsessed with the idea of race and gangs in Denver, in your many posts, and now the drumbeat of the segregation of Denver.

Most of us who experience Denver; and have come from eastern cities know that Denver is a much better place; and you have alluded to that fact. But you really do not understand how different and peaceful this area is compared to rough and tough eastern cities. There areas that have predominate racial identities but they are not so delimited as you seem to allege. All neighborhoods of the cities have mixed residents and the neighborhoods sort of meld into each other.

I would suggest you read this recent article about the Denver metro area

Denver gets whiter; suburbs more diverse - The Denver Post

It will give you more information on how our "salad bowl" of people are being mixed and dispersed through the area.

Segregated neighborhoods are not always caused primarily about race. Economics play a big part of the issue and certainly just simple demographic patterns. For example, people tend to move in a metro area in a direct line, concentrically from the more concentrated racial and ethic neighborhoods. So, we see that parts of Aurora are African American because the Northeast part of the city was predominate in that race. It is the same issue that there are many people of Italian descent in Wheat Ridge because North Denver was settled by Italian Immigrants.

It would take much discussion, when we go back, further and determine why the African Americans were there; and Hispanic were here; Asian live down there; and Jewish enclaves were established in certain neighborhoods. Part of the issue is that people move where they feel comfortable, among who they know; families follow families--especially new immigrants to an area. Latter as economic opportunities arise and the next generation has more of a familiarity and mixing occurs, then we toss that "salad" in the mixed bowl which is America.

To the readers, who are learning about our area, Metro Denver is a great place to live and does not have the extreme conflicts of race and ethnicity as other areas. This the American West and it does not matter "how you got on the horse, it is how you ride".

Livecontent

[cityboy2010]

Umm...I've been to NYC, Philly, Miami, Houston, and Los Angeles. I'm aware this is a better place, but from what I've noticed, a lot of the white areas aren't very diverse. The minority areas come together more, even though there is usually one predominating race. I'm just wondering why, in a city like this, there is still a lot of segregation- more than what someone would expect.

Also, you seem to be similarly obsessed with Denver's supposed "whiteness". O_o

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by cityboy2010

Umm...I've been to NYC, Philly, Miami, Houston, and Los Angeles. I'm aware this is a better place, but from what I've noticed, a lot of the white areas aren't very diverse. The minority areas come together more, even though there is usually one predominating race. I'm just wondering why, in a city like this, there is still a lot of segregation- more than what someone would expect.

Also, you seem to be similarly obsessed with Denver's supposed "whiteness". O_o

Every city, in every country, in every continent, has some degrees of segregation based on all different factors: of race, ethnicity; wealth etc. Denver is no different and certainly no worse, in the negative characteristics, than any other place.

You want to know why it is segregated. As I said there are many reasons and, yes, hatred of color, did play a big factor in the past. Why would Denver be any different in attitudes that reflects the the historical times? It had people, good and bad, and that was the way it was. It was not as pronounced as certain eastern cities; we all agree on that and the reasons are many. For some reason, you have an idea that this behavior should not have happen here--that is ridiculous. Denver is a product of what it was; and the present times and behaviors will form what it will become.

I am not obsessed with the whiteness of Denver. I just do not care to spend my time noticing all the issues that have your concern. I am just pointing out the changes in the area with my link.

I live in a lower middle class neighborhood with Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, Mixes raced families and there is me: a fat loud ex New Yorker of Sicilian extraction. I just live on the edge of North Denver which I frequent often and I have seen changes over the many decades I have lived here.

I am very familiar with the whole area and I regularly go to these neighborhoods, like Five Points, The Asian Community on Federal etc. because I like to see differences---actually that not the whole truth--I really like to eat different food. I know there are bad areas and bad people but that is the way in all places. I just do not think Denver is so bad; maybe because I have seen worse and lived in much worse environments.

I have told this story before. I have a niece in the area and she had a party at her house with all her little friends. There were Asians, Whites, Blacks, Hispanics and Mixed--the only segregating factor was that they were all girls. At her age, "she does not like boys"; they were not invited.

I was there; and I could not keep all their name, in my mind. I asked her, pointing, who is that black girl's name. She looked at me, very confused, and said "She is not black, She is brown!" So, I think that really says it all about how this area is changing That made me really think, about, how our young people, here, are growing up with different and better ideas.

Livecontent

[LisaCACO]

colorado is what it is. read about its history,etc and you'll know why it is the way it is. white flight created the suburbs and they're still pretty white. of course, colorado is amazingly white, tho' less so than say,30 years ago.

housing segregation has to do with many things including race, housing loans(racially based), perceptions about "good schools" (also racially based), etc.

good books to read about related issues:

dividing classes: how the middle class negotiates and rationalizes school advantage by ellen brantlinger

Family Properties: Race, Real Estate, and the Exploitation of Black Urban America by Beryl Satter

[Mach50]

All American cities are segregated, it seems very few people desire to live outside their comfort zone.

[Steelers10]

Originally Posted by Mach50

All American cities are segregated, it seems very few people desire to live outside their comfort zone.

Yes all American cities are segregated, but to varying degrees and it has absolutely nothing to do with comfort. It is a condition that is hyperspecific to African Americans. After the Civil War, you had a fairly sizeable exodus of blacks out of the South moving primarily to very small towns of the North and West. In the 1870s (Colorado became a state in 1876) many of these newer western locales were very hospitable to blacks during this era of Reconstruction. Colorado's small towns were among the more welcoming.

However, Republicans for all of their benevolence toward blacks during Reconstruction, were effectively able to use the Civil War to hijack the federal government and dominated Congress as well as the Presidency under Grant once Andrew Johnson was forced into a lame-duck status. The Grant administration was the most corrupt in American history to that date, wracked with clientelism and backroom deals. Even though black enfranchisement was a sentiment of the supporters of the Republican Party, corruption was not and the Republican machine basically had to dismantle all of their political initiatives to even have a viable chance in national politics. Black enfranchisement chief among them.

The U.S. (mainly the North and West but even some places in the South) was quite integrated until the late 1880s. But with a politically backpedaling Republic Party, southern racist Democrats became the dominant force in Congress and spearheaded or completely supported all legislation discriminatory such as Indian Removal and Exclusionary Laws toward the Chinese. The landmark Plessy v. Ferguson decision was not made until 1896. Not until the first decade of the 20th century did residential segregation laws began to be passed in ALL large cities of the time. The Supreme Court actually struck down many of these laws but not the racially-restrictive covenants that were the driving force behind segregation.

When blacks began to migrate in large numbers out of the rural South, many were burned out of the small "Sundown Towns" of the North and West and forced to live in certain neighborhoods in the large cities. This is nothing new; all immigrant groups (almost all of whom were white) were forced to live in distinct neighborhoods by restrictive covenants. What was different for blacks, is that soon after WWII, the FHA (thus federal government) subsidized massive suburbanization by guaranteeing loans to WHITES ONLY. So it didn't matter if your descent was English, Scottish, Irish, German, Italian, and Polish or if you were Jewish or Catholic; if you were white, you could get an FHA loan. If you were black you could not. Unless you agreed to live in a neighborhood that was already a majority black which certainly did not lend itself to integration.

Segregationist policies of the FHA were ended (allegedly) in the 1960s and blacks have been suburbanizing since the early 1970s. The exact moment in American history where the U.S. became dependent on foreign oil, heavy industry began to move offshore, and middle-class family incomes flatlined. Cheap oil, federal subsidies, and unionized manufacturing jobs were the catalyst for suburbanization; none of which were readily available to blacks and immigrants (such as Hispanics) who arrived after the 1960s. That is why blacks and Mexicans are highly segregated but blacks more so. Hispanics had a choice whether to migrate to the U.S. but native-born blacks were subject to the whims of local, state, and federal segregation laws. U.S. Senator Jim Webb wants to end all affirmative action policies that benefit anyone but African Americans. It is laughable to hear people crying socialism when the most heavily subsidized programs in American history (notably suburbanization and the interstate highway system) largely did not benefit minorities as per federal policy.

With that being said, Denver is not as segregated as most Northeastern cities (and on par with those western cities with a sizeable black population) because it was not a heavy industry hub. Blacks are segregated largely because they arrived in Denver fairly late (1940s and beyond) and mostly did not have the skill set necessary to benefit from a post-industrial economy. However, many highly-educated blacks integrated into the Denver middle-class and Denver apparently was receptive to the black middle class community as Wellington Webb served as mayor for 12 years. Blacks just haven’t had the tenure long enough to be as suburbanized as generations who had been living in Denver since the 1860s. But that whole "people live next to who they are comfortable with" is bull because there are plenty of integrated communities throughout the United States. The commonality I have seen with these integrated communities is that they all seem to be upper middle income. Those areas with high rates of poverty have a tendency to be monocultural.

[roverchris]

We were actually surprised about how diverse it is here. It's much more so than Austin, which is basically white liberals who talk a good game yet live in their overpriced, hip neighborhoods. You got Mexicans there, and a small percentage of blacks, but not to worry, the Austin PD is doing a great job of eliminating them.

[SacTown11]

Originally Posted by cityboy2010

I know it's not quite as bad as some other major cities (Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, etc.), but in the past week I've just began to notice how segregated we really are as a city. Like south-central Denver and downtown is very white. Northeast and East Denver and very black- almost no white people there. North Denver, West Denver, and Southwest Denver are very Hispanic...I mean I know there's such thing as 'ethnic enclaves', but it seems that Denver just segregates itself based on race primarily.

And the gentrification of Five Points didn't help in my opinion...it just created an income disparity in the neighborhood between the same old poverty, but now, ALAS, their neighbors are yuppies who know nothing about the area or have respect for it.

Any thoughts as to why Denver is like this?

Have you even been to another major city in America? Even out here in Sacramento, CA its segregated. People stick to their own...we're still a long way from Kum-by-ah holding hands in a global utopia. It is what it is. You don't like it then you can go move to North or Northeast Denver(or vice versa if you be non white)...trail blaze for the rest of us! The real world is not the sheltered utopia taught to us in school...

[andyk56]

Your headline asks why is Denver so segregated and then you back off and say the it's not as bad as some other cities. What is your point?

Cityboy, Denver does not have the diversity of NYC, Philly, LA etc for a reason. It's not because white people erected barricades around the city. It's because it was not on the underground railroad nor a manufacturing jobs magnet in the early 20th century. Nor is it a coastal city that gets a large part of immigrants. That's just the way it evolved. Sorry.

You also seem to have issues with gentrification. There is this phenomenon going on for the last 25 or so years where people are tired of commuting to suburbs and are fixing up places closer in. It causes values to go up. Sorry.

Disrespecting Five Points? What? Have you ever been to Harlem? Brooklyn? Hollywood? Areas that were crime and drug infested are changing for the better. And the original citizens smart enough to buy in those areas long ago have reaped the benefits along with the peace of mind of being able to walk down the street more safely than years ago.