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OP talks about a nice Pittsburgh suburb like it represents the east coast. It certainly doesn't represent the DC metro area very well.
I moved here this year. The biggest thing I've noticed is that kids do things here. They play outside. They ride bikes. They do the stuff that kids across the country were doing 30 years ago. This wasn't my experience near DC; everyone drives, you rarely see kids on bikes, and nobody is walking anywhere unless they're in DC proper taking the Metro or downtown Baltimore.
People don't seem to be on top of their kids here like they are there. It's okay to take the bus and play in the neighborhood. Look at the family who had their 8/6 year olds picked up in Rockville, MD by the police <twice> after a complaint because they had walked to the park. If there aren't parents in immediate sight there, a large portion of the population assumes that parents are neglectful and/or the kids are delinquent.
If being an extreme helicopter parent is considered "a good place to raise kids" then I'm not for "a good place to raise kids". Kids should be outside playing all summer. The before/after/summer care programs available for my daughter in Maryland barely had her outside; the adults always had some excuse to not take them out. In Colorado, I moved to Westminster. My kid was outside every day, all day this summer unless there was heavy rain or thunderstorms. I see kids playing in our neighborhood without extreme adult supervision.
The kids library at Front Range Community College is awesome. As others have stated, I wonder if OP has been there. It. Is. Awesome.
Interesting take on this. I've always considered myself someone who is kind of half-helicopter parent, half give-them-enough-rope-to-hang-themselves type, but maybe I'm just used to a parenting style that is way more helicopter-like than I realized. My gut instinct is that the parenting style here isn't healthy (just letting the kids run rampant). For example, when we went to the aforementioned concert in the park, there were kids everywhere jumping around on retaining walls that were literally 25ft tall. Not just one or two kids, but maybe 20 or 30. It was the norm. A fall from there onto the concrete below would either kill or severely injure a kid. Maybe I'm a helicopter parent, but that doesn't seem right to me. Seemed more like the attitude was "don't bother me, I'm chilling out watching the show" rather than "it's healthy for my kids to explore without me hovering over them."
Re the library's organization: Books in public libraries are generally arranged by the Dewey Decimal System, which means picture books will be arranged by author. Some libraries group picture books together by the author's initial rather than using complete alphabetization, but it is necessary to have some sort of system rather than just tossing the books into a bin, in order to find specific titles for requests, or if someone claims they've returned a book.
Similarly, non-fiction will be arranged by topic, to facilitate finding things. This also allows the browser to spot other interesting titles on the same topic which they may not have otherwise found.
Some libraries will have specialized shelves. My local library has a "family shelf", with books for small children on new babies, going to the hospital, adoption, divorce, etc., along with books for adults on helping kids deal with these issues and on book selection for children. And most libraries will have displays on various topics: seasonal, holidays, animals, community helpers, and so on. Usually the books in the displays can be borrowed, or else duplicate copies are available. Mysteries, animal stories, science fiction, etc. may be pulled out onto specialized shelves for older children. Many libraries use spine stickers to indicate the topic of their books.
But it's a very rare public library children's department which simply throws books randomly into bins labeled by age. Doing so would not benefit the vast majority of library users.
Ask your local children's librarian for booklists for your children. Also see Jim Trelease's "The Read-Aloud Handbook" for excellent suggestions.
BTW, how old are your children? Can you put the younger one(s) in a stroller to help corral them while in the library and to give yourself a little more freedom to select books? Most libraries have board books for small children which could occupy stroller riders while you're helping an older child or finding good books for your family.
Sorry but I don't see the fact that books aren't in baskets as anything remotely suggesting that libraries are set up for dual-income families.
In fact, while I consider the libraries very family friendly, the majority of children's programming is geared to families with a stay at home parent, since story hours tend to be weekday mornings - you know, when both halves of that dual income couple are working. Or since I am a single parent working full time and not there to see it, maybe the dual income couples are sending their kids to story hour with a nanny. They must also be the ones who are sending their kids to the 9-12 preschools and the 9-3 summer camps, since I can tell you those are not accessible by a single working parent.
I don't mean to pick at you and yes, every one wants to find the right location where they feel comfortable and that they've "found their people." But from the perspective of a single parent, Denver is far more geared to families with a SAHP or one who works something less than full time than it is set up to accommodate families where both parents work full time outside the home.
To address some of the comments about the library, I don't mean to say that there's no kids areas in the local ones, there are, but the overall experience seems suited more for the needs of dual-income families. We generally like to have 10-12 children's books checked out at any given time so we can read constantly at home and keep the selection fresh. Because of this, we get into the habit of every few weeks heading to the library and picking out a new bunch of books. At the libraries we're used to, there were all kinds of efforts to facilitate this very thing -- paperback books (so you can grab 10-12 books), all in a giant bin organized by age, so you could flip through really quickly and select a bunch that look interesting. In the libraries here, it's all laid out like the rest of the library is, by category. So you'd have to go through the aisles and look in the geography section, then look in the fiction section, so on. While holding a baby and trying to keep track of another kiddo, and trying to hold 10-12 hard-cover books that are all different sizes, this is just too difficult. Not trying to say the library is terrible -- it's beautiful -- it just seems to be suited more for dual-income folks who may want one or two books for their evenings at home. It was more a comment on regional societal differences than the library itself.
Just for some perspective... I lived within walking distance of the Westminster Library and in Superior, Broomfield and Boulder for 13 years. I am now in a suburb of NYC, where, yes, most people are NOT dual income if one person works in NYC because the hours are so long... those spouses that do work in the city are usually not home until 7:45/8pm -- would be tough on a family if both parents had a schedule like this. The town I live in is quaint, with 100 year old, excellent public schools and major train and bus transportation into the city.... and our area comes with crazy housing prices to support that, in addition to a minimum 14,000K in yearly property taxes. The town library has a large children's section -- very nice -- and it's arranged in the exact same manner as the Westminster children's library -- the proper way of arranging and categorizing books that nearly all libraries follow! I take my small children every week. We get out about 10 books each time.
As far as the differences in parents' attitudes here versus in CO, I don't see much difference. I will say that I am more helicopter-y than many of the parents here, especially at the community pool. Many are a lot more laid back about where their kids are than I am. But I am like a prairie dog... always popping my head up, trying to make sure I know where they are. I am trying to chill out a bit.
I see just as many ill-behaved kids out and about here as I did in CO. There are those kind of parents -- and children -- everywhere. Saw them in Austin and the bay area too.
People do seem to have more extended family here. Adult kids with families of their own end up moving back for the city and all it has to offer career-wise AND for their family and the support that comes with being close to them -- we eventually did. I think because the COL is SO high here, you sort of need the helping hands to make the work/like balance more palatable for family life. The city in itself makes work life so different here, e.g., you pay $250 a month out of your own pocket to commute to and from the city 5 days/wk after you've been away for 12+ hours. Having family around makes this balancing act easier. So, in that way, I agree that families stick together here, more so than in other areas of the country.
Thanks again for all the comments. Just want to put an end to the library debate, wasn't really meant to be an attack on the libraries, just another tiny symptom of a societal trend I happened to notice.
To clear things up though, the library back east had books organized by dewey decimal, it just ALSO provided you with several other options for grabbing books on the go. Again, never meant to attack Colorado's libraries, they're fine.
The whole reason I wrote here was because I just felt, on a gut level, like I've sold my soul to live in a huge, beautiful house with sunshine next to the mountains. Shiny objects.
You might want to consider that it isn't that Denver is a bad place to raise kids (because really it is a spectacular place to raise kids) but more that your home sick.
Thanks again for all the comments. Just want to put an end to the library debate, wasn't really meant to be an attack on the libraries, just another tiny symptom of a societal trend I happened to notice.
To clear things up though, the library back east had books organized by dewey decimal, it just ALSO provided you with several other options for grabbing books on the go. Again, never meant to attack Colorado's libraries, they're fine.
The whole reason I wrote here was because I just felt, on a gut level, like I've sold my soul to live in a huge, beautiful house with sunshine next to the mountains. Shiny objects.
OP, the transition can be really tough, especially coming from back east where things are more intimate and smaller in scale.
The culture is different here. There is a lot of kid stuff going on, but the overall spirit here is definitely more laid back.
That being said, there are large numbers of SAHMs in the suburbs. My daughter has always been home with her kids as have a lot of the moms at her kids' school.
When the kids were babies, she made a point of reaching out to other moms via meetups as it was very hard to meet people with similar interests with the little ones.
They organized their own age appropriate activities and outings and it seemed very positive for all concerned.
With fall and winter coming, there will be all sorts of things happening that you and your kids may enjoy.
No, they won't be the same as what you are familiar with, but something might be just right.
My observation from my time in Denver was that many parents involve and incorporate their kids into the active outdoor and social lifestyle here. I saw kids skiing, hiking and biking with their parents, attending outdoor concerts and events etc. I think that builds a cohesive and rewarding family life just as what you describe above does.
I lived in Stapleton where there are tons of families and places that cater to them.
I agree with this.
I also think it must be where you are, OP, specifically. In Highlands Ranch, tons of moms stay home. There are tons of half day preschools, tons of activities for preschoolers at rec centers, and a nice family oriented library.
We just moved back to Denver after a 10 year stint on the East Coast in a town where it seemed like everyone had 2 or 3 kids, the mothers all stayed at home, and life in general revolved around the kids. It wasn't as social as Denver is, parties were never really going on and families tended to stick together. Made life seem kinda boring, but it was amazing how everything in society seemed to revolve around family and old-school values. The pre-schools all were half-day, since stay-at-home moms don't need the kids to be in daycare, they're just looking for a place that can enrich their children's lives. Even the libraries felt attuned to this, they had kids areas where there were toys for the kids to play with while the mothers (or fathers) picked out some books for the kids to take home. There were even bags of books you could grab that were a mixture of books for a certain age. Easy peasy.
Fast forward to living in Denver. The culture shock we experienced was crazy. So much fun to always have a party to go to, or a concert in the park, etc. But what we didn't expect was the way society handles the kids so differently here. Seems like all the adults just chill and socialize with other adults, and the kids run rampant. Society seems to revolve around the needs of dual-income families. Pre-schools are mostly full day. The libraries make it very difficult to bring your kids while you pick out 10 or 12 books to take home. In general, it seems that Denver is an adult playground, which we love, but the kids all seem like they're just along for the ride, rather than being a central focus of society. Nowhere is this evidenced more than in the continual lack of funding for schools.
We never knew how amazing the family values were back east until we left. I love Denver for the sunshine, access to the mountains, and the overall playfulness of the adults, but I struggle with all the things my kids had to give up to move here.
Can anyone talk some sense into me?
Well no, I don't have kids...but,
You see you made the comment about how libraries are difficult to bring your kids. No insult, but that comment is insane!? I have been to 20 libraries in Arapahoe, Douglas, Adams, JeffCO and Denver counties and even the little rinky dink libraries have an EXTENSIVE children's section with children's toys and games. There is daily programming for kids and moms and families at every library, DAILY.
One other thing. Have you ever been on MEETUP.COM? Every day all sorts of mommy and kiddy groups meeting and doing stuff. Maybe it's not some formal crap like back East (I am from NY honey), but it's a lot more than the offerings for folks without families and kids.
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