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I recently purchased a home in East Denver. One thing I've noticed about the area is how poorly connected it seems to be with the rest of the region. I know that they are extending the light rail along I-225. But the commute to downtown from the new Florida station will still be about 45 minutes (not accounting for drive time to the station). Another thing is that E470 is a toll road. So you essentially have to pay a luxury tax to use it. The surface roads that connect East Denver to the highways and the central and western parts of the city are also very underwhelming. I often times take Evans to I-25, and notice how congested it gets during rush hour because it's way too narrow of a road to serve as a major artery. Colfax is essentially not much better. Parker Road is probably one of the better options, but it essentially bottlenecks once you get to Colorado Blvd. And don't get me started on the cluster that is Cherry Creek. What a terrible, terrible layout of roads to put in the center of the city.
I only live about 10 miles from downtown. But with the current layout of roads and light rail lines, it's about a 45 minute to 1.5 hour commute no matter how you cut it. I can't imagine trying to commute to/from Parker or to/from the northern suburbs.
I would love to see Evans Road expanded into a six-lane avenue. Colfax would also benefit from an expansion and possibly even a light rail line that connects to the new I-225 lines. Essentially, I think Denver needs more avenues/highways that connect East Denver to the rest of the metro. Think Highway 6 or Hampden Avenue/285, that services the western burbs.
What are some proposed changes you would make to the area to improve transit times and options?
Last edited by Mr. Analyst; 11-10-2015 at 10:02 AM..
I want to see a study done on getting light rail to go through the city, not just downtown and commuter corridors. Create a mixed use lane along 6th and 8th aves, etc. If we could get light rail to become a little more than a commuter line, that would be great. Any such study been done ever?
I want to see a study done on getting light rail to go through the city, not just downtown and commuter corridors. Create a mixed use lane along 6th and 8th aves, etc. If we could get light rail to become a little more than a commuter line, that would be great. Any such study been done ever?
Not sure, but it could be the long term goal once the framework is in place.
It is a bear getting around that area.
I live in far SE Aurora and I tried many combinations when I was still commuting to near the Capitol building (Colfax and Logan).
I-25 was the worst. Parker/Leetsdale/Colorado Blvd. almost as bad
West across Iliff/Evans, then north on Colorado was pretty bad too.
I ended up picking up Colfax at Airport and took that all the way. On a really good day, I could make it in around 35 minutes, average was 45.
That got old though so I started taking the bus, well, two buses, every day. Took twice as long but much less stress.
I don't know how many of the east/west corridors could be widened without huge costs and major disruptions to the existing traffic patterns.
There's been talk off and on about running some sort of rail along Colfax but it seems to me that there are only limited stretches where that would be feasible unless they ban traffic in lieu of the rail.
I think that would be the most efficient solution, but I suspect that Denver and the larger metro is much too car-centric for that to ever be a possibility.
In any event, there has been and continues to be, lots of discussion, research, etc. regarding the ever growing traffic issues.
Some recent, and not so recent, reports here:
I want to see a study done on getting light rail to go through the city, not just downtown and commuter corridors. Create a mixed use lane along 6th and 8th aves, etc. If we could get light rail to become a little more than a commuter line, that would be great. Any such study been done ever?
Light Rail now goes through the city and has many stations in Denver as it proceeds to Union Station from the suburbs. There are numerous station in west Denver from the line going from Lakewood. There are many stations in Denver on the Southwest and Southeast Line. Of course the rail stations in Downtown and the Central Rail are all in Denver.
In addition the new Commuter Rail lines to the Airport and the Gold Line to Arvada runs through city and will have stations in the city. For the line running to the airport, there will be stations in the northern neighborhoods of the city and there will be a station in the Northeast quandrant from the gold line. The line running north that will be completed in 2018 will have stations within the city.
Yet, I do see your point in wanting more public transit for rail and/or street cars and/or Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) with dedicate lanes in Denver vs. buses and there are studies for future implementations.
There is the Central Light Rail Extension under study RTD,
Light Rail is more designed for in the city implementation while heavy rail is design more for between cities and faster transport for longer distances.
The big issue that comes with looking at light rail, street cars and BRT is that the city is more build out and designed for the expanded use of personal cars with lanes set aside. We cannot necessarily go back and just put streetcars, as in history; nor can we tear down buildings and destroy all car lanes in the city to put light rail and/or street cars and/or BRT.
Some say we had it in the past. However, Streetcars where first install when private auto travel was not so extensive and now with the cars and lanes on the streets, it is difficult to accommodate theses rail systems and dedicated lanes when we still have to provide for extensive private auto travel.
So we are left with buses within the city but they have the restrictions of being slowed by competing with cars in the same lane which slows down public transit.
Some say we should install subways as has been down in older Eastern Cities and European Cities. Many of these were done before there was private transit but the cities were extensively built out by that time. So, subways was the only way to go in London, NYC, Paris etc. This transit modality has also been looked at today for Denver but it is not considered viable for many reasons or cost effective today in this city. It is extremely expensive and creates its own problems that is beyond what I can discuss on this somewhat short post. The same can be said for any type of overhead and over the city transit systems as in monorails which have also been considered. Light Rail and/or Street Cars and/or BRT are the better options and there are many variations of these modalities.
Your issue you bring up is important and noted often in discussions and meetings about transit and everyone is trying to look at the issues to create a faster public transit in the city but at the same time take in consideration private auto transit which is also important for transit.
Keep in mind the big Gorilla in the room--costs and funding. It is one thing to have a good idea and there is another thing to get it implemented BUT first and foremost the monies and funding has to be assured. That issue is the most difficult, especially when you have to go to the public vote for increase in taxes and bond issues.
Opposition to public transit is extremely rabid by some people and for them, their automobile is the only way for everyone and they will not allow their freedom of the road to be threatened or restricted. Yet, they do not realize that by the massive use of the auto by everyone and everywhere and all the time--they are restricting themselves in traffic jams.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-10-2015 at 10:54 AM..
If there was a way to convert Colfax into a legit 6-lane avenue/highway, that would definitely help. Also, connecting 6th Avenue/Highway all the way across would be effective.
Denver was clearly not a city designed with long term population growth taken into account. It is a very segregated city that seems to emphasize exclusive neighborhoods that aren't interconnected.
Cherry Creek throws a massive wrench into the entire transit system. It disconnects Parker Road from the rest of Denver.
I look at other comparable major cities, and there is such a large system of interconnected highways and avenues. I would argue that Minneapolis is pretty similar in size and growth to Denver. It might even be a bit smaller. But just look at the layout of its highway system. It's a much better grid-like layout. All we have here is I-25, I-225, 285, Highway 6, and C-470 & E-470 which only covers 3/4 the metro.
If there was a way to convert Colfax into a legit 6-lane avenue/highway, that would definitely help. Also, connecting 6th Avenue/Highway all the way across would be effective.
Denver was clearly not a city designed with long term population growth taken into account. It is a very segregated city that seems to emphasize exclusive neighborhoods that aren't interconnected.
Cherry Creek throws a massive wrench into the entire transit system. It disconnects Parker Road from the rest of Denver.
I look at other comparable major cities, and there is such a large system of interconnected highways and avenues. I would argue that Minneapolis is pretty similar in size and growth to Denver. It might even be a bit smaller. But just look at the layout of its highway system. It's a much better grid-like layout. All we have here is I-25, I-225, 285, Highway 6, and C-470 & E-470 which only covers 3/4 the metro.
There is always the argument just to build more and widen the existing roads to allow more auto transit. In the past that was more of that idea but ideas are changing today to spend a larger portions of the limited budget on expanding public transit. That does not mean we abandoned auto transit but we must limit and slow the growth.
More thought is to built highways from the far away suburbs to transit points and the commute to continue to the inner dense city by public transit. The day will also come when we start severely restrict automobiles in certain denser areas where it makes no sense for auto transit.
To your point to think about putting six lanes down Colfax: It would mean to tear down our historical structures on Colfax and bring big destruction of history of who we were; not to mention the eyesore and danger of a 6 lane highway in the middle of the city. Today we want to preserve the structures of our past to incorporate such into a more beautiful city--we have made too many of those mistakes, in the past, by just tearing it all out to built highways.
Your idea to expand this road and that road will just bring more cars into the inner city. Is that what we want to do? Roads and highways are not the only space that must exist for the auto, we also have multiple spaces set aside all over for one car to be able to park at many destinations--we cannot afford nor should we built more and more parking spaces.
The ghosts of our unique history of what we were; why we built this or that; why we did not do this or that, our mistakes and successes of the past will always limit what we can do in our future. Comparing one city to another because of these different pasts and what they were able to implement is not always advantageous. We need to look at what we have; what will work for us and it is not the same what has worked for others.
There is always the argument just to build more and widen the existing roads to allow more auto transit. In the past that was more of that idea but ideas are changing today to spend a larger portions of the limited budget on expanding public transit. That does not mean we abandoned auto transit but we must limit and slow the growth.
More thought is to built highways from the far away suburbs to transit points and the commute to continue to the inner dense city by public transit. The day will also come when we start severely restrict automobiles in certain denser areas where it makes no sense for auto transit.
To your point to think about putting six lanes down Colfax: It would mean to tear down our historical structures on Colfax and bring big destruction of history of who we were; not to mention the eyesore and danger of a 6 lane highway in the middle of the city. Today we want to preserve the structures of our past to incorporate such into a more beautiful city--we have made too many of those mistakes, in the past, by just tearing it all out to built highways.
Your idea to expand this road and that road will just bring more cars into the inner city. Is that what we want to do? Roads and highways are not the only space that must exist for the auto, we also have multiple spaces set aside all over for one car to be able to park at many destinations--we cannot afford nor should we built more and more parking spaces.
The ghosts of our unique history of what we were; why we built this or that; why we did not do this or that, our mistakes and successes of the past will always limit what we can do in our future. Comparing one city to another because of these different pasts and what they were able to implement is not always advantageous. We need to look at what we have; what will work for us and it is not the same what has worked for others.
Livecontent
I'm open to the public transit proposition. However, as it stands now, East Denver is vastly under-served while the western burbs have many more public highways (285, 470, 6) and a light rail line that goes straight west to east (W-Line). The H-Line and future R-Line that will run along I-225 are a good starting point, but they also aren't the most efficient routes. I think we need more East to West lines that connect the entire region. Aurora and East Denver are very much working class parts of the region that could greatly benefit from more public transit options.
If there was a way to convert Colfax into a legit 6-lane avenue/highway, that would definitely help. Also, connecting 6th Avenue/Highway all the way across would be effective.
Denver was clearly not a city designed with long term population growth taken into account. It is a very segregated city that seems to emphasize exclusive neighborhoods that aren't interconnected.
Cherry Creek throws a massive wrench into the entire transit system. It disconnects Parker Road from the rest of Denver.
I look at other comparable major cities, and there is such a large system of interconnected highways and avenues. I would argue that Minneapolis is pretty similar in size and growth to Denver. It might even be a bit smaller. But just look at the layout of its highway system. It's a much better grid-like layout. All we have here is I-25, I-225, 285, Highway 6, and C-470 & E-470 which only covers 3/4 the metro.
Denver grew faster, later. Maybe in the '60s, you could get away with bulldozing neighborhoods to put in a freeway, but not today. And seriously... 6th Ave. or Colfax? No one is going to bulldoze historic homes and buildings. I wouldn't mind if they bulldozed through most of Aurora on Colfax, but once you get to the Denver line, Colfax is cleaning up, if not already nice. It can't be widened, period. A streetcar down Colfax is probably the only option, other than buses.
Denver is getting denser and population is rising. That means traffic will continue to get worse, and neighborhoods near the city core will rise in value. I drive through it every day, but it's the price I pay for living in a desirable city. There's no such thing as a large, vibrant city where everyone cant get where they want without traffic. I live in Stapleton, and when I was working downtown, it took about 30 - 35 min. to get to work. Not bad, IMO.
I'm open to the public transit proposition. However, as it stands now, East Denver is vastly under-served while the western burbs have many more public highways (285, 470, 6) and a light rail line that goes straight west to east (W-Line). The H-Line and future R-Line that will run along I-225 are a good starting point, but they also aren't the most efficient routes. I think we need more East to West lines that connect the entire region. Aurora and East Denver are very much working class parts of the region that could greatly benefit from more public transit options.
I agree that East Colfax and East Denver is NOW vastly under-served. I have argued that point for years as Aurora is not only the biggest suburbs--It is also a city standing in its own right; being the third largest city in the state and has suburbs of its own.
Ah, but there is big change coming in 2016 with the heavy rail to the airport, A line, and the extension of the light rail along 225, R line going through Aurora, connecting to that airport line.
One of the biggest impetus for increase service is the Anschutz Medical Campus which have rail lines in and and around the campus and will by necessity need extensive transit options.
Is these proposals perfect--NO! However, I have learned that RTD is conservative when initial proposals are made as the want to see the initial impact; RTD does not commit everything all at once. Also, there is many more problems of public outcry if they initiate a bus change and then remove it too quickly. RTD likes to go what they know is more certain to stay.
RTD always keeps some proposals waiting and in the budget so they can react fast to complaints and changes needed; so they look like they saved the day and can do it quickly. Any type of service with new implementation of rail lines is an evolving change over years. Do not be too disappointed if you do not see what you like--just wait and see.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-10-2015 at 12:52 PM..
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