Denver more expensive then much wealthier metropolitan areas (Highlands Ranch, Windsor: homes, safe area)

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by SQL

The natives I talk to tell me all sorts of stories about how they'd never venture into the areas that are now LoDo, LoHi, RiNo, Baker, etc. because of how shady those areas were. I've also heard several accounts about shootings in the early days of the 16th Street mall and the Pavilions. Apparently they closed one of the bars in the Pavilions down because of uncontrolled gang violence.

I'm just going by what they told me. I only moved here in 2008.

Yeah, I have a different take on your [patronizing] characterization of the history of Denver. I'm a native whose family has been here since the 1920s. People joke about Denver as a "cow town" and yes, while it has the stock show and there is some history of being an actual "cow town" back in the 1800s, Denver has been anything but a "cow town" for as long as its entire current residents have been alive. The current social and economic environment of what makes Denver recognizably "Denver" has been in place since at least the mid 1990s, if not even earlier. Really, the Denver metro area has been primarily a white collar place back since the 1980s, an entire generation before you came. Certain trends have accelerated since then (nationwide, not just locally), certain neighborhoods have changed 180 degrees, but the overall city and metro area is still fundamentally the same place-- much more costly now of course. People have been moving here in droves for years long before you and your friends discovered the place.

As for crime, certain neighborhoods around downtown were bad, yes, but the city of Denver contains a lot more square miles of normal family neighborhoods than just the urban hipster enclaves in the central part of the city that you just mentioned. Since the 1950s through today, the vast majority of the Denver metro area of land area and population is and was in the suburbs, not Denver proper. There always have been nice, safe areas and bad troubled neighborhoods. Also, other than LoDo which has been called such since the 1990s, these other stupid acronym names like "LoHi" didn't even exist until recently. "LoHi" was not on the urban hipster radar screen until the early 2000s. "RiNo" is basically a brand new concept that didn't even exist previously-- it was previously just a bunch of old warehouse buildings in the Platte River floodplain, not a place anybody would have thought of as a residential area, let alone a trendy one.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Yeah, I have a different take on your [patronizing] characterization of the history of Denver. I'm a native whose family has been here since the 1920s. People joke about Denver as a "cow town" and yes, while it has the stock show and there is some history of being an actual "cow town" back in the 1800s, Denver has been anything but a "cow town" for as long as its entire current residents have been alive. The current social and economic environment of what makes Denver recognizably "Denver" has been in place since at least the mid 1990s, if not even earlier. Really, the Denver metro area has been primarily a white collar place back since the 1980s, an entire generation before you came. Certain trends have accelerated since then (nationwide, not just locally), certain neighborhoods have changed 180 degrees, but the overall city and metro area is still fundamentally the same place-- much more costly now of course. People have been moving here in droves for years long before you and your friends discovered the place.

As for crime, certain neighborhoods around downtown were bad, yes, but the city of Denver contains a lot more square miles of normal family neighborhoods than just the urban hipster enclaves in the central part of the city that you just mentioned. Since the 1950s through today, the vast majority of the Denver metro area of land area and population is and was in the suburbs, not Denver proper. There always have been nice, safe areas and bad troubled neighborhoods. Also, other than LoDo which has been called such since the 1990s, these other stupid acronym names like "LoHi" didn't even exist until recently. "LoHi" was not on the urban hipster radar screen until the early 2000s. "RiNo" is basically a brand new concept that didn't even exist previously-- it was previously just a bunch of old warehouse buildings in the Platte River floodplain, not a place anybody would have thought of as a residential area, let alone a trendy one.

I echo this as another native whose family has been here since the 1800s.

We didn't go to LoDo not because it was dangerous. There were just a bunch of empty buildings and nothing was going on.

[SQL]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Yeah, I have a different take on your [patronizing] characterization of the history of Denver. I'm a native whose family has been here since the 1920s. People joke about Denver as a "cow town" and yes, while it has the stock show and there is some history of being an actual "cow town" back in the 1800s, Denver has been anything but a "cow town" for as long as its entire current residents have been alive. The current social and economic environment of what makes Denver recognizably "Denver" has been in place since at least the mid 1990s, if not even earlier. Really, the Denver metro area has been primarily a white collar place back since the 1980s, an entire generation before you came. Certain trends have accelerated since then (nationwide, not just locally), certain neighborhoods have changed 180 degrees, but the overall city and metro area is still fundamentally the same place-- much more costly now of course. People have been moving here in droves for years long before you and your friends discovered the place.

As for crime, certain neighborhoods around downtown were bad, yes, but the city of Denver contains a lot more square miles of normal family neighborhoods than just the urban hipster enclaves in the central part of the city that you just mentioned. Since the 1950s through today, the vast majority of the Denver metro area of land area and population is and was in the suburbs, not Denver proper. There always have been nice, safe areas and bad troubled neighborhoods. Also, other than LoDo which has been called such since the 1990s, these other stupid acronym names like "LoHi" didn't even exist until recently. "LoHi" was not on the urban hipster radar screen until the early 2000s. "RiNo" is basically a brand new concept that didn't even exist previously-- it was previously just a bunch of old warehouse buildings in the Platte River floodplain, not a place anybody would have thought of as a residential area, let alone a trendy one.

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

I echo this as another native whose family has been here since the 1800s.

We didn't go to LoDo not because it was dangerous. There were just a bunch of empty buildings and nothing was going on.

Guys, I'm not trying to bash on the city. In fact, quite the opposite. I've been defending it for quite some time against lovescrowds. I'm just conveying what I was told by other people I know.

I happen to live here and I like it and I feel like it is a relatively safe larger city. Unlike lovescrowds, who is constantly ranting about how overrated it is. Somewhere along the line of responding to his constant ranting, it's made me appear as if I take issue with Denver. For clarification, I do not.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by SQL

Guys, I'm not trying to bash on the city. In fact, quite the opposite. I've been defending it for quite some time against lovescrowds. I'm just conveying what I was told by other people I know.

I happen to live here and I like it and I feel like it is a relatively safe larger city. Unlike lovescrowds, who is constantly ranting about how overrated it is. Somewhere along the line of responding to his constant ranting, it's made me appear as if I take issue with Denver. For clarification, I do not.

Sorry I was echoing his sentiment about downtown, not that I thought you were bashing the city.

[lovely40]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Glad I'm moving in a couple weeks, that's ridiculous.

Wow is this what my beloved I-25 has become now?!? I moved away four years ago and contemplated a return home soon. Maybe I'll just stay put where I am for a while longer. Or move to the Springs instead.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by randomparent

Centennial ...had a murder not long ago

One?
A murder?
You people need to man up and join the big leagues.
One?
LOL.

[randomparent]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

One?
A murder?
You people need to man up and join the big leagues.
One?
LOL.

I would prefer not. Just the one was wrenching enough, thank you.

[CuriousMiscer]

Originally Posted by blackmet

I remember my first place of my own in 2007. $524 a month. No deposit. First month free. And completely doable on a 30K a year call center job. Granted, it was an overheated tissue box on I-70 and Kipling, but that was fine with me at the time...I had friends who lived in the same complex, and they got a month of free rent for me moving in. Plus, instant social life!

Currently I make 50K a year. After taxes and etc, my take home is approximately $2700 a month. Which means that I really shouldn't spend over $900 a month on an apartment. That's going to basically put me...right back in that first apartment, which according to someone who recently looked for a place in that complex, now runs $875 a month.

So, as someone with a middle class income and a semi-professional office job, IF I were still single and hadn't winced and bought last year...my standard of living would be at or below what it was in 2007 when I basically answered phones for an insurance company.

Oh, and my company pays the exact same wage for the exact same job in Phoenix. $900 a month gets me this, 30 minutes from work.

932 East Desert Drive, Phoenix, AZ | Trulia

Or this 17 minutes away:

10610 South 48th Street #1077, Phoenix, AZ | Trulia

Or if I felt like cheaping out:

Colonia Del Sol - Phoenix Apartments | Trulia

So while I vehemently disagree with most of HSChilik84's politics, I don't blame him for making the move. If I was both single and unmortgaged, I'd be asking them to hold one of the two open positions down there in my group open for myself at this point. There's nothing I do here for fun that I can't do there...I'm sure they have swimming pools, hiking opportunities, bowling alleys, karaoke bars, gay bars, libraries, and theaters.

The other person in my group at my office is moving to CLEVELAND because their rent just got jacked up $600 a month. I will miss him, but I don't blame him.

Yep, I remember those days well.

I remember me and my brother split costs on our very first apartment.... a roomy 2/2 apartment that was $740ish/month in a quiet neighborhood next to a park. I attended night college classes while working days, he also worked a job in afternoons. This was during the "golden era" of WoW circa 2006-2007, I was absolutely hooked on that game at the time. Good times

Anyone whose lived here for an extended period of time is well-aware of just how cheap everything used to be. I am still in DISBELIEF as to how fast all the prices got arbitrarily jacked up overnight. Pre-2010 Colorado might as well be an episode of "the Twilight Zone" at this point.

Normally higher costs aren't a problem as long as incomes are also going up, but as you pointed out incomes for most people have been flat. Meanwhile prices of everything have gone up up up up, so effectively a lot of people are now making LESS money than even 10 years ago (higher cost of living + same exact income = technically making less money).

[nick4242]

Denver was almost 2x the population of Birmingham, AL in 1920. I've never heard anyone call Birmingham a cow-town or anything like that.

Denver has been in large city category for a while.

As far as renting its actually not too bad compared to where most people come from, it's just all the new construction is expensive. You can't get a 1 br in a nice neighborhood in any medium sized with for less than $1200 in Nashville or Charlotte. I pay $1100 for my apartment in Wash Park and if there was an equivalent neighborhood in any of those cities it would actually cost you more. I haven't seen a homeless person in my neighborhood in 2 years, hell I'd probably pay $300 more if they stay out I'd be happy to wash a few cars every month or take on a few short term working gigs just to pay the premium

When I moved to Denver 4 years ago I was amazed I could live near Cheeseman Park for $800. I'm sure when all the hippies, druggies, etc. occupied that area is was probably 1/2 that, but you pay for quality of life, safety, and not to live around trashy people. People up and down the east coast and south don't have a whole lot of places to live like this.

[Timmyy]

LoDo was scary when I moved here in 1999. It has been fun watching it mature into what it is today. I definitely feel safe taking my family up there.