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Denver is a big contender on my list for a potential relocation. I think what draws me to Denver is it's climate (being similar to Flagstaff), mountain access, the fact that it's a big city, good employment numbers and I like the term "Menver" if I'm going to be quite honest. I think Denver might be the city I would like to live in, right now it's #1 on my list along with Portland and Seattle. There's also a strong chance that I may end up in Florida, though that's my last option.
Now I am not experienced with Denver personally, but I have heard that Denver has changed quite a bit in recent years. I know what it's like to watch a city change almost entirely before your eyes (Phoenix) because of excessive transplant figures. Denver seems to be the new target for such nonsense whereas Phoenix was in the previous decade and the 90s. Phoenix was once a cheap, libertarian-mindset stronghold with good traffic and decent employment numbers. Phoenix is now reaching average COL for the country (still cheaper than Denver, but still not cheap anymore, know what I mean?), reaching very right-authoritarian mindsets in regards to social freedoms, employment for good-paying jobs has not improved in fact I would guess stagnated, and traffic is becoming terrible, yet people keep moving here for that sunshine we have too much of.
If I move somewhere ideally it would be for the long-haul. I was born and raised in Phoenix and moved down to Tucson for college, where I'm about to graduate now and know I don't see a very good career future here. I have moved apartments every year, and I strongly dislike doing such a thing. Even if I wanted to stay my odds are slim career-wise. If I move to Denver I would like to be there for at least a few years if not longer. I have wanderlust for traveling but never for my permanent residence. It would be nice to have roots with long-term friendships.
I wanted to make a thread to discuss Denver's foreseeable future, I think these matter to me the most over "affordable, walkable areas" (we all know this is a common thing to ask on the C-D forum) as I am pretty cheap and although I would like to live in the "hip" parts of town I would be willing to live somewhere dumpy or have a ton of roommates. Besides if I knew for sure I would be moving to Denver then I will probably make another thread on here to ask those questions. Though to be honest, affordable and walkable areas with public transit is something I would target for a place to live.
Is Denver in a real estate bubble?
What is changing drastically in Denver?
Are basic necessities (groceries, electric, etc.) also drastically increasing like rents?
Is Denver just a "fad" that will die out soon? Do you think the Millennials (people my age) will move out of Denver soon to some other "hip" city? Or do you think these people are here for the long-haul also?
Is employment starting to become hard to come by?
What are the current big issues in Denver, and are they fixable? Does Denver have any water problems? Etc.
Where do you see Denver heading?
I'll be asking a similar thread on both the Portland and Seattle forums and make a comparison between these three cities. However I hope to hear specific information about Denver from Denverians (is that the right term?) on Denver's future.
I appreciate any information given! I don't want to move to a new place and dislike it a couple years down the road because it's changed so much. I've watched my home do that and while I don't mind change I don't want the mindset of the citizens/the culture of the area to change, which I have witnessed personally. Arizona used to be pretty friendly but now has "Phoenix Phreeze" (I spell it that way on purpose) I like to jokingly say to compare it to the "Seattle Freeze". I hope Denver is not on such on a path, and I'm hoping to find out if it is!
Libertarian -> Boise, Spokane, Butte, etc.
Denver city and county is a Socialist Paridise and I very happy with that.
fixed
Surrounding counties such as Arapahoe (lean left), Boulder (strong left), Jefferson (swing), Adams (lean left), Broomfield (lean left) and Douglas (strong right) make up the rest of the metropolitan area. If you combine all metro counties to 'Front Range county' it's probably a slight left leaning county.
My personal off the cuff answers, just my impressions and I'm sure others can (and will!) disagree.
Is Denver in a real estate bubble?
Kind of, but I don't think it will burst - more that the unsustainable rate of increase will slow, but I think there is a new higher baseline that is likely to be a long term change. Denver is no longer some inexpensive, hidden gem and it's not going to go back to that.
What is changing drastically in Denver?
Everything. The skyline itself with new construction and ongoing infrastructure. Jobs and industries. It's a thriving and growing city.
Are basic necessities (groceries, electric, etc.) also drastically increasing like rents?
Some things yes, others no. Gas prices are below the national average. Food prices have gone up some in the 10 years I've been here but I don't feel like it's been a dramatic increase. You can get good prices if you are willing to put in the time and effort to comparison shop and go to a couple of different stores to maximize what you get on sale. But, and I realize this isn't applicable to you, even 10 years ago, Denver was one of the most expensive cities in the country for childcare and it still is. I have no idea why cost for that is so high compared to average incomes. I'm sure there are other exceptions like that even if I can't give specific examples.
Is Denver just a "fad" that will die out soon? Do you think the Millennials (people my age) will move out of Denver soon to some other "hip" city? Or do you think these people are here for the long-haul also?
Most people I know are married with kids. They moved here for jobs and they like it here but would relocate again if it was the right career move. No one sees it as a fad, they see it as a great place to raise a family. Different demographic than you are asking about so hopefully others can comment more on that.
Is employment starting to become hard to come by?
Depends on your field and qualification. Good workers with experience can find jobs. I've worked in 2 different places since I've been here and a fair amount of transition, coming and going, at both. Entry level positions may be tougher because there are enough people with experience who will take something to get a foot in the door so those without experience may have a tougher time.
What are the current big issues in Denver, and are they fixable? Does Denver have any water problems? Etc.
Denver itself doesn't have water problems as far as I know. Big issues - housing prices have increased more quickly than wages, so there is a mismatch there. I think wages will creep up a bit but I feel that it's going to remain off balance - not that it's the same numbers as NYC, LA, SF, Boston, but I think that the reality is that people will have to spend a higher percentage of their income on housing than in a lot of other places and that isn't going to change. Big issues are having an infrastructure that can accommodate the increased population - roads, schools, etc.
Where do you see Denver heading?
For now, continuing to move forward with a strong economy and increased population growth. Obviously I don't have a crystal ball and I suppose the bottom could fall out either overall or maybe just in one industry that could have a ripple effect. But the economy is reasonably well diversified so hopefully in a position to weather some storms and still be ok.
Is Denver in a real estate bubble?
What is changing drastically in Denver?
Are basic necessities (groceries, electric, etc.) also drastically increasing like rents?
Is Denver just a "fad" that will die out soon? Do you think the Millennials (people my age) will move out of Denver soon to some other "hip" city? Or do you think these people are here for the long-haul also?
Is employment starting to become hard to come by?
What are the current big issues in Denver, and are they fixable? Does Denver have any water problems? Etc.
Where do you see Denver heading?
I don't know much about the RE bubble; I haven't bought or sold a house here in 27 years. My daughter bought a house 3 years ago and it was hot, hot, hot then. You had to make a decision right away.
I don't think Denver has changed drastically since we came here in 1980. Granted, it was still more of the "Cow Town" it was known for then, but back then we did have the Denver Center for Performing Arts and the Arvada Center for Arts and Humanities plus many other small arts groups; the big universities that are here now (CU, CSM, DU) were here then plus Metro, UCD, and the community college system. We gained a professional baseball team and a pro soccer team. We gained the Scientific and Cultural Facilities District tax which has helped the arts. We got a beautiful new health science center campus in Aurora, though the old campus was nice too and the quality of work being done was similar. The population of the metro area has about doubled since we came here.
I have not noted other prices rising drastically. Re: rents, they seemed to go up in a big jump ~5 years ago. Now they seem to increase incrementally.
People have been moving here for forever. It doesn't seem to be about to change. As people get older (!) they are more likely to try to stay in Denver rather than moving around for career purposes, IME.
Employment here has always been a bit difficult for certain occupations b/c so many educated people move here. Back in the early 80s there was a real nursing shortage in most places, not so much here. Just one example.
Current big issues? I don't see any, and I follow local politics pretty closely. It's always the same old, same old-need more money for roads, education (sometimes in conflict with each other), stuff like that.
I see Denver heading to H*ll in a handbasket! J/K, I see it continuing to be a nice place to live and raise a family.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-03-2016 at 11:57 AM..
I would wait and see what happens with the vote on ColoradoCare before moving to Denver. If it passes, an entire country of people without healthcare, or people who don't have good healthcare, will want to move there for the "FREE" healthcare with almost no copays and no deductibles for just being a resident of Colorado even if you don't work.
If you think a lot of people are moving into Colorado now, if ColoradoCare passes it will be a stampede of people.
Is Denver in a real estate bubble? Yes I believe it is, like many big run ups in pricing there is usually a hysteria that you have to buy before the price gets to high. People pay more for housing than they can afford and most people seem to have convinced themselves that prices can only go up, then they go down and they realize that just like everything else prices are dependent on demand.
What is changing drastically in Denver?
The demographics as a whole are changing, with the city skewing more towards the young than every before. It is also becoming more liberal on a daily basis.
Are basic necessities (groceries, electric, etc.) also drastically increasing like rents?
Groceries are considerably more expensive than they were even just 5 years ago, to the point you have to carefully observe sales and shop multiple stores to keep a grocery budget in line. From my observations groceries are more expensive in Denver than other places I have been.
Is Denver just a "fad" that will die out soon? Do you think the Millennials (people my age) will move out of Denver soon to some other "hip" city? Or do you think these people are here for the long-haul also?
Yes I believe it is a fad and will die out, I am a tax accountant for small business owners and drive for Lyft on the side, I spend many hours a day talking to various people of various backgrounds, and there are plenty that are planning to leave and many that have told me they wish they had never come here. They are being balanced out by those that are still moving here, but from appearances that seems to be slowing down. There is vacation Colorado and there is living in Denver, they are not the same thing as there is just never enough time to do everything when you are working 60 hours a week and so the city loses it's luster real quick. I have also spoken with a guy who is in Denver to do a study on why college educated natives leave and why so many millennials come to Denver but leave to have families. Despite the fast growth of the Denver metro area schools have empty desks right now due to lack of students, which should not be happening.
There will be some that stay for the long haul, but those that are moving here based on false beliefs or because it is the cool city to live in now will be gone over the next few years.
Is employment starting to become hard to come by? With the construction and IT booms going on there are jobs, although if you are not in those 2 fields or a job that feeds directly into either of those than the jobs pay less here and are harder to come by.
What are the current big issues in Denver, and are they fixable? Does Denver have any water problems? Etc.
Yes Denver and Colorado as a whole have a huge water problem, right now the state is in a lawsuit with California for not sending enough water despite it traveling through 3 other states to get to California. Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma have all sued the state in recent years. about 5 years ago the state of Colorado and it's municipalities in the Denver metro area used a state appointed water court and the judge to erase hundreds of farmers senior water rights, so that those farms are either now dry land farms or developed. People can choose to ignore water, and they will since the last couple of years we have had plenty of water, but another drought year or two and suddenly it will all come back to the fore front and people are not going to like the restrictions that they will face, especially with the population boom and no additional storage being built. Even with storage I do not know if it is really fixable as through agreements and the feds much of the run off from our mountains actually belongs to other states.
Where do you see Denver heading?
Denver has a long history of being a boom or bust city, while it is usually tied to mineral extraction or tourism, right now it all seems to lead back to technology. There are thousands of start up tech firms in the Denver metro area, and the issue with that is that talking to people who are in the upper management of some of these companies and talking to friends I have in venture capital, the money is drying up for startups. Many of the startups around Denver are having trouble raising more money, and many are not yet close to profitable, when those go under or are sold out than many of those jobs will disappear as will many jobs that support it. I see Denver headed for a bust, and while I do not think it will be rust belt or Detroit type bust, I can easily see a Vegas or Phoenix type bust nearing the entire front range.
The 2 things Colorado has going for it are the natural resources like Oil & gas and mining, and tourism (although with the legalization of weed in other states that will slow down as well), they will keep the economy going especially if the predictions like oil prices doubling in the next year hold true. But overall this crazy growth and jumps in cost of living will reverse and it will seem to happen overnight for those that are ignoring the signs.
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if I'm going to be quite honest. I think Denver might be the city I would like to live in, right now it's #1 on my list along with Portland and Seattle. There's also a strong chance that I may end up in Florida, though that's my last option.
