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Old 03-11-2018, 09:46 PM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,591,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler21 View Post
Diversity doesn't always refer to racial figures. For example, Seattle has a larger LGBT community. Denver doesn't even have a designated LGBT neighborhood.
At that point you're basically also looking to add diversity of thought into the conversation as well, and next to San Francisco, I can't think of a city anywhere in this country that loathes diversity of thought more than Seattle.
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Old 03-12-2018, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,827 posts, read 29,980,374 times
Reputation: 14429
Quote:
Originally Posted by confused-again11 View Post
The two cities are not comparable. They need to stop being lumped together.

- I get that, I don't think they are similar, however certain laws are appealing in each state...so I think sometimes people say they're the same because of that, which is wrong.

Seattle is a legit, dense, busy, truly cosmopolitan city.

-ain't that the truth, its quite busy. I can't lie I do love a busy city, I don't mind traffic and I like driving my car. I've sat in Denver traffic a few times (I think on the 70?! is that the highway to the mountains?) and it didn't bother me, I was surprised the actual downtown of Denver was smaller than I expected.


And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I find Denver to be just as sceney as Seattle, if not more so. Certain things about it attract certain types, and IMO everybody doesn't fit in Denver.....there isn't any sense of "down-to-earthiness", but that's JMO.

- What does "Sceney" mean? Do you find there is a good nightlife? Where are the good bars? 11 years is a good chunk of time so you must enjoy it! I'd love to hear what types of things you do on the weekends. I'm definitely a hiker and used to be very into snowboarding, I'm guessing I should pick that up again while in CO

However, it may work for you OP. The newer area of downtown may appeal to you (west of and around Union Station).
-I have seen some beautiful apartments and parks online! it looks very nice, are there any neighborhoods you would say avoid?

Thanks so much for posting! You're comment seems very genuine. Can I ask how old you are? JW I'm 26.
I'm 34.

Denver traffic, even with its recent increase, is still nothing compared to Seattle's.

By "sceney", I mean people who make an effort to present themselves as belonging to a particular group and/or interested in certain things or hobbies, with kind of a wanting to close themselves off within their particular interests/groups. I kind of feel that many of the hippest nightlife spots cater mostly to young professionals or hipsters (which is fine I suppose, but it gets tiring).

I've always found it difficult to put my finger on the true pulse of the city, it's so many things all at once, and yet positively nothing at the same time. To be clear, the real "Denver" is probably somewhere in Lakewood, IMHO the best bars are in some of the boringest parts of the suburbs.

I do enjoy living here. I too enjoy hiking (mostly flat lol), trying new restaurants, playing cards, and going on day trips (in or out of town ). For the time being, it is still a very livable place with endless things to do, all the time.

There are plenty of neighborhoods to avoid here; within the city those areas are shrinking however. Everywhere has improved or stayed the same during my time here, nowhere has gotten worse (and that's great!). You won't find 80219 to be desirable, 80239 is pretty-much no go for most. 80204, 80205, 80207, 80216, and 80223, are hit and miss (and the miss in many of those zips is shrinking). Most every other city zip is fine. In the suburbs, there are parts of some of them to avoid, but none are absolutely terrible when taken at their whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Sorry, I have to tear this apart a bit. Seattle is a "legit" city, sure - but so is Denver. Seattle is NOT, however, "dense", "busy", or "truly cosmopolitan". Is it denser than Denver? Absolutely, but neither are dense. Is it busier than Denver? Yup, considerably for better or worse. Cosmopolitan? Dead wash. They're both beta level cities. The difference is Seattle likes to think it's some sort of global urban phenomena when in reality it's just a run-of-the-mill mid-sized metro that happens to be blessed with better scenery. Its belief in "cosmopolitan-ness" seems to be directly attributed to its ability to charge $19 for a hamburger and to be full of bartenders that make their own bitters as a hobby. If we define cosmopolitan as per-capita pretentious hipsters, sure, Seattle's a world leader. But in few other metrics. It's been my experience that the average Seattlite thinks they're a lot more important on the map than they are simply because they haven't been around to a lot of other places (the people who think Cap Hill is on par with Soho being a great example)

I won't pretend to know a ton about Denver on an intimate level, though I find myself enjoying my ever-more-frequent visits for business purposes. I do know they've got 4 major sports teams to Seattle's 2, it doesn't appear any of the major shows ever pass over Denver/Red Rocks, but they frequently bypass Seattle, the food scene is different but equal (Seattle, predictably, has superior seafood, but I find Denver's style of new American cuisine and rando-ethnic...particularly the Mexican...to be a cut above), Denverites (Denverers? Denvereans? I don't know the term) are infinitely more stylish and more in tune with current trends, it's got Seattle - the whitest damn large-ish city I've ever seen in America in my life - beat in spades in terms of diversity (which isn't saying much because Denver's pretty white-bread, too, but at least there's something). The transit and road infrastructure is light years ahead of Seattle's (again, not hard to beat since Seattle only has buses that don't keep good schedules and oftentimes are so overfull you have to wait for multiple buses to come by before you'll even be allowed on a route)...I could go on for a while, but I think the point is sufficiently made.

At the end of the day, you're talking about the 15th largest metro (one which, in order to achieve that ranking, extends over an hour south of the city to envelope Tacoma, which is a whole other world) and the 19th largest metro (which seems to actually be one contiguous metro). Neither are particularly big.
My cosmopolitan comment was in reference to where people are from, ethnically, and originally; and how at ease the population is with newcomers. ~80% of people here are White or Hispanic, and are American by birth. 44% of people in metro Denver were born in CO (including a particularly militant set who wants "all transplants to go back to their "home" states"), most of the rest are from CA or the Midwest. We have a small black population, and a comparatively tiny Asian population. Sure, we do have some interesting populations here, but compared to Seattle?

Have you been to Denver lately? You do see that it's in the Seattle-Portland-Austin conversation too right? Every neighborhood with a known name is swarming with hipsters. Denver wouldn't even attempt to consider itself on par with anything in New York, when at least half of us want to return to 1980!

Janet Jackson passed us over. Justin Bieber cancelled here. Beyonce and Jay-Z aren't stopping here. U2's done it. Taylor Swift probably doesn't want to come back.

The Mexican food here is slop, because it's covered in green chile. Some of the best places here do not even compare to the worst ones in CA. But Central/Eastern WA easily beats Denver, which does sadly, beat Seattle.

I disagree re: trends. Seattle has always felt more "with it" to me, aside from the suburbs. I do concur re: transit.

One last point: Denver's metro totals include Boulder and Greeley. Talk about another world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler21 View Post
Diversity doesn't always refer to racial figures. For example, Seattle has a larger LGBT community. Denver doesn't even have a designated LGBT neighborhood.
Cheesman Park.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,930,380 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count David View Post

One last point: Denver's metro totals include Boulder and Greeley. Talk about another world.
Actually, that's for the CSA. The MSA is the City and County of Denver, Arapahoe County, Jefferson County, Adams County, Douglas County, the City and County of Broomfield, Elbert County, Park County, Clear Creek County, and Gilpin County.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_metropolitan_area
The counties in bold are all rural and/or mountain.

CSA:
Denver–Aurora–Lakewood, CO Metropolitan Statistical Area, the Boulder, CO Metropolitan Statistical Area, and the Greeley, CO Metropolitan Statistical Area. Adds Boulder and Weld Counties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver...atistical_area

Last edited by Count David; 04-16-2019 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:18 PM
 
123 posts, read 170,124 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count David View Post
I'm 34.

Denver traffic, even with its recent increase, is still nothing compared to Seattle's.

By "sceney", I mean people who make an effort to present themselves as belonging to a particular group and/or interested in certain things or hobbies, with kind of a wanting to close themselves off within their particular interests/groups. I kind of feel that many of the hippest nightlife spots cater mostly to young professionals or hipsters (which is fine I suppose, but it gets tiring).

I've always found it difficult to put my finger on the true pulse of the city, it's so many things all at once, and yet positively nothing at the same time. To be clear, the real "Denver" is probably somewhere in Lakewood, IMHO the best bars are in some of the boringest parts of the suburbs.

I do enjoy living here. I too enjoy hiking (mostly flat lol), trying new restaurants, playing cards, and going on day trips (in or out of town ). For the time being, it is still a very livable place with endless things to do, all the time.

There are plenty of neighborhoods to avoid here; within the city those areas are shrinking however. Everywhere has improved or stayed the same during my time here, nowhere has gotten worse (and that's great!). You won't find 80219 to be desirable, 80239 is pretty-much no go for most. 80204, 80205, 80207, 80216, and 80223, are hit and miss (and the miss in many of those zips is shrinking). Most every other city zip is fine. In the suburbs, there are parts of some of them to avoid, but none are absolutely terrible when taken at their whole.



My cosmopolitan comment was in reference to where people are from, ethnically, and originally; and how at ease the population is with newcomers. ~80% of people here are White or Hispanic, and are American by birth. 44% of people in metro Denver were born in CO (including a particularly militant set who wants "all transplants to go back to their "home" states"), most of the rest are from CA or the Midwest. We have a small black population, and a comparatively tiny Asian population. Sure, we do have some interesting populations here, but compared to Seattle?

Have you been to Denver lately? You do see that it's in the Seattle-Portland-Austin conversation too right? Every neighborhood with a known name is swarming with hipsters. Denver wouldn't even attempt to consider itself on par with anything in New York, when at least half of us want to return to 1980!

Janet Jackson passed us over. Justin Bieber cancelled here. Beyonce and Jay-Z aren't stopping here. U2's done it. Taylor Swift probably doesn't want to come back.

The Mexican food here is slop, because it's covered in green chile. Some of the best places here do not even compare to the worst ones in CA. But Central/Eastern WA easily beats Denver, which does sadly, beat Seattle.

I disagree re: trends. Seattle has always felt more "with it" to me, aside from the suburbs. I do concur re: transit.

One last point: Denver's metro totals include Boulder and Greeley. Talk about another world.



Cheesman Park.
I've never once heard anyone refer to Cheesman Park as the gay neighborhood or ever gotten the same vibe as you do in LGBT neighborhoods in other cities.

Last edited by Count David; 04-16-2019 at 09:20 PM..
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:29 PM
 
Location: 0.83 Atmospheres
11,474 posts, read 11,589,442 times
Reputation: 11992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler21 View Post
I've never once heard anyone refer to Cheesman Park as the gay neighborhood or ever gotten the same vibe as you do in LGBT neighborhoods in other cities.
Well if you don’t know about it can’t be!!!

Like many historically gay neighborhoods, Cheesman has changed, but it was the gay center for the region in the 80s. Uptown is also a gay neighborhood.

Denver has one of the largest Pride Parades in the country. Since it is the only large liberal city for a thousand miles, it was the closest friendly place for many gay people in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

https://www.outfrontmagazine.com/tre...tory-colorado/
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:48 PM
 
2,175 posts, read 4,308,596 times
Reputation: 3491
I don't care about any of Seattle's positive attributes. It's such a gloomy place, weather-wise.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:10 PM
 
3,217 posts, read 2,368,964 times
Reputation: 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Sorry, I have to tear this apart a bit. Seattle is a "legit" city, sure - but so is Denver. Seattle is NOT, however, "dense", "busy", or "truly cosmopolitan". Is it denser than Denver? Absolutely, but neither are dense. Is it busier than Denver? Yup, considerably for better or worse. Cosmopolitan? Dead wash. They're both beta level cities. The difference is Seattle likes to think it's some sort of global urban phenomena when in reality it's just a run-of-the-mill mid-sized metro that happens to be blessed with better scenery. Its belief in "cosmopolitan-ness" seems to be directly attributed to its ability to charge $19 for a hamburger and to be full of bartenders that make their own bitters as a hobby. If we define cosmopolitan as per-capita pretentious hipsters, sure, Seattle's a world leader. But in few other metrics. It's been my experience that the average Seattlite thinks they're a lot more important on the map than they are simply because they haven't been around to a lot of other places (the people who think Cap Hill is on par with Soho being a great example)

I won't pretend to know a ton about Denver on an intimate level, though I find myself enjoying my ever-more-frequent visits for business purposes. I do know they've got 4 major sports teams to Seattle's 2, it doesn't appear any of the major shows ever pass over Denver/Red Rocks, but they frequently bypass Seattle, the food scene is different but equal (Seattle, predictably, has superior seafood, but I find Denver's style of new American cuisine and rando-ethnic...particularly the Mexican...to be a cut above), Denverites (Denverers? Denvereans? I don't know the term) are infinitely more stylish and more in tune with current trends, it's got Seattle - the whitest damn large-ish city I've ever seen in America in my life - beat in spades in terms of diversity (which isn't saying much because Denver's pretty white-bread, too, but at least there's something). The transit and road infrastructure is light years ahead of Seattle's (again, not hard to beat since Seattle only has buses that don't keep good schedules and oftentimes are so overfull you have to wait for multiple buses to come by before you'll even be allowed on a route)...I could go on for a while, but I think the point is sufficiently made.

At the end of the day, you're talking about the 15th largest metro (one which, in order to achieve that ranking, extends over an hour south of the city to envelope Tacoma, which is a whole other world) and the 19th largest metro (which seems to actually be one contiguous metro). Neither are particularly big.

Been to both several times but lived in neither. Considered both places for jobs too. I do a lot of work around finance/construction on a national scale so I keep up with these towns.


First, you are unduly harsh on belittling Seattle metro in terms of size and what areas constitute the MSA. Tacoma is only 33 miles from downtown Seattle. Hell DIA is 26 miles east of downtown Denver and there is nothing out there but planes and prairie dogs! I'm sure many in Denver consider Boulder nothing but a suburb and its about the same drive time to downtown Denver as Tacoma is to Seattle.


Now that's off my chest, Denver has some benefits that are mentioned by several here, cheaper (BUT not cheap!), Sunnier (BUT colder winters). Denver scenery...over rated. Everyone points west to the Rockies but what about east of I-25..might as well be in Kansas, nothing but grassland. What's underrated...Location to OTHER places to travel. Mountain time zone and east of the continental divide... 90 minutes to 2 hours closer to a lot more places in North America and the Caribbean. Savings right there on airfare. And still close enough to head back to Seattle for a long weekend. Denver is a United airlines hub and Southwest and Frontier airlines fly a lot out of there.


The economy is excellent but for some reason, I don't know if Denver has been able to attract or really the home of global/American companies we all know to love or even hate. Seattle does, Dallas/FW does, even Austin with Dell, Whole Foods, Yeti, Patron, and Titos' Vodka. Denver, I guess DishTV?


Housing is way overpriced in Denver, even compared to Seattle really. Seattle's price spikes are do to Amazon's growth, Microsoft's resurgence and Boeing blowing up big time plus the topography of the area makes some places off limits for housing and having lots of water around makes land near access points that much more valuable. Denver, WHY? open prairie to the north, east and south for miles! I saw a new subdivision there last year on my way back to the airport staring in the $400Ks! For what? Nothing around it but grass. No trees, no elevation, no nice lake adjacent, no near a rail line or state park. NOTHING! Smdh...I'd rather move to Santa Fe for that kind of money.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:35 PM
 
123 posts, read 170,124 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Well if you don’t know about it can’t be!!!

Like many historically gay neighborhoods, Cheesman has changed, but it was the gay center for the region in the 80s. Uptown is also a gay neighborhood.

Denver has one of the largest Pride Parades in the country. Since it is the only large liberal city for a thousand miles, it was the closest friendly place for many gay people in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

https://www.outfrontmagazine.com/tre...tory-colorado/
I forgot to travel back in time to the 80s when considering neighborhoods. Appreciate ya.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:52 PM
 
Location: 0.83 Atmospheres
11,474 posts, read 11,589,442 times
Reputation: 11992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler21 View Post
I forgot to travel back in time to the 80s when considering neighborhoods. Appreciate ya.
The Castro of today isn’t nearly as gay as it was in the 80s. History matters. Did you read the link I posted?

Last edited by SkyDog77; 03-12-2018 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:32 PM
 
123 posts, read 170,124 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
The Castro of today isn’t nearly as gay as it was in the 80s. History matters. Did you read the link I posted?
I won't dispute that. My point is Denver does not have a Castro, a Boystown, a Hillcrest, a Montrose, a West Hollywood, a Loring Park, a Lavender Heights, and so on.

In present times, Denver does not have a clearly defined LGBT neighborhood. Others cities do. That's my point and has been from the beginning.
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