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Old 03-11-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,204 posts, read 19,026,046 times
Reputation: 38265

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Oh good, we haven't had a "Denver doesn't deserve to have this high cost housing" thread in a while.

 
Old 03-11-2019, 11:28 AM
 
824 posts, read 695,787 times
Reputation: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Let's Go Here View Post
... I live in Brighton, not LoDo - I know several people who live in the city and pay 30-40 percent more for a one bedroom. This isn't New York, LA, or San Francisco. To me, Denver is a midwestern city...
NYC & SanFrancisco have a serious much higher cost of living

-Yes; if you move to just about any other "midwestern city" you will find a lower cost of living. Along with lower tech and business opportunities.

-Denver is all played out from an investment point of view.
-Denver was one of the first cities to initially pull out of the recession
-the current Denver city government is less likely to hold down costs just now
 
Old 03-11-2019, 11:40 AM
 
9,868 posts, read 7,594,802 times
Reputation: 22118
You cannot cherrypick the best attributes of other places and magically take them with you to another place. For example, climate is not portable (though some would say climate change can make it seem that is happening). Geographic and geologic features are not portable. Flora and fauna taken out of their native environment may or may not fit in elsewhere, and there have been numerous ecodisasters foisted on The New World when homesick immigrants brought over plants and animals from elsewhere on the planet.

Salary levels from a much bigger city usually are not matched in a smaller city.

There is ALWAYS a tradeoff or several when moving from one region to another.

This is nothing new! I first moved to CO in the 80s, during an economic bust. Rent was very cheap compared with east coast cities. But pay was also much lower. Yes, there actually was a “sacrifice” to living in the Denver area. The sacrifice was in pay level; there was a gain in quality of life for those of us who chose Denver’s positives over better pay. If, OTOH, money is of highest importance, you are in the wrong place.
 
Old 03-11-2019, 02:16 PM
 
177 posts, read 173,965 times
Reputation: 221
You can pay 1000 a month easy for a 1 bedroom if you are willing to sacrifice certain things. I like old buildings anyways

What does your 1400 a month 1 bedroom even have? a pool? balcony? do you need those things?
 
Old 03-11-2019, 03:28 PM
 
1,710 posts, read 1,451,632 times
Reputation: 2205
I dont get it when natives cry about their hometown growing and getting better. Yeah its busier and more $$$$ but so is everywhere else worth living. If you want to live off the grid then yeah you win that argument. If you wan to be near amenities, city with a good economy, good paying jobs.....you're gonna pay $400k+ for a single family home in a good safe neighborhood.

What I dont understand is someone who has lived in a certain area their whole life, renting in their 30's with no skills crying about how pricey its gotten and transplants are moving them out. If you would have bought 20 years ago you could have made a fortune.

Sorry Im a transplant I made myself marketable and a job brought me to Denver...I like it here but I will go where $$$ takes me.
 
Old 03-11-2019, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Nashville
3,533 posts, read 5,792,325 times
Reputation: 4707
It is true that many cities are skyrocketing in prices. Heck, even many of the once super affordable Midwestern cities are now becoming a bit more trendy and hip. I've looked at Kansas City and Columbus, Ohio which now are also having a property boom and rent increases. Cities like Nashville are now about as expensive as Denver, which is nuts, since the job market hasn't caught up. But, I feel a city like Nashville which has a lot of entertainment, lively nightlife, friendlier people and a more sociable urban atmosphere is more worth the price than a city like Denver. Denver still just has kind of a desolate cow-town feel to it and many people seem to spend most of their free time out of the city, rather than in it. I've never been in a city this large that completely shuts down so early. Getting a burger or Chinese food after 9PM is a chore in Denver compared to other places. Denver just feels like Wyoming meets Southern California. Endless suburban sprawl and a sleepy urban core. Even most of the bars here stop serving food at 9PM, which is crazy. I had more food options at 11PM in Olympia and Bellingham, Washington than in Denver. Eugene, OR had a more thriving nightlife scene than Denver. If you are going to have BIG CITY prices like Denver you better have BIG CITY amenities.

However, I just don't feel Denver is worth it for what you pay.. The city has no life and as others said, the cuisine leaves a lot to be desired.. THere isn't much for social activities in the city and not a lot of sociable events. The only events in Denver are typical for many places, beer festivals, lage concerts with famous musicians and professional sports games. Those are fine and I think Denver fares well there. Day to day urban activities are very limited in Denver even compared to Portland, Oregon. In fact, I kind of think even Boise has more going on than Denver and I always thought Boise was pretty desolate and dull place. Not to mention you can get a nice upscale apartment in downtown Boise for a fraction of what you pay in Denver. The mountains and wilderness in Idaho are also nicer, in my opinion, than Colorado and you have way more diversity of geography.

Of course, if you are into rock climbing, skiing, snowboarding than this is your city. It seems like a good majority of the events in Denver revolve around ski resorts and mountain activities. However, I just don't like the elevation and I rather do my outdoor stuff in Appalachians or Cascades, because at 8,000 to 12,000ft the lack of oxygen and powerful UV rays take a lot out of you. I never realized it, but the lack of water here is also really depressing. If I am out in the mountains I want to see beautiful lakes, river and streams. The ones in Colorado look so dismal to what I am use to seeing in Washington, Oregon and Idaho.

The breweries in Colorado are quite good, but the weed is not so good and no where is good as compared to the Northwest. Hahah, I guess at least people have the right to smoke weed here and unlike some, I view that as a positive and it will be something I miss leaving Colorado, as the next state I go to will not have legal weed. But, I really miss the weed back home so much in the Pacific Northwest which is much higher quality and more natural.

Yet, I had to leave the Pacific Northwest because both Washington state and Oregon became completely uninhabitable for a single professional who also cherishes some of his other freedoms and liberties that now have been compromised over there. The traffic, cost of living, polarizing politics, homeless issue (Denver doesn't even hold a candle), lack of friendliness among many other issues made me say goodbye to the Northwest. As well, Portland, OR is basically the same price as Denver with lower wages and higher taxes. Seattle is like living in San Francisco now. Neither Seattle, Portland or Denver are worth the price you pay anymore or the struggles you have to endure to have the luxury of living in some oversized, poorly made shoebox in these cities.

The mountains of Colorado are nice, but being from the Pacific Northwest I feel our mountains are much more scenic and have a much more diverse geography, especially comparing the Western side of Cascades to the Eastern side. You have majestic snowcapped peaks all over the Northwest, where in Colorado you have several 13ers and 14ers that you have to hunt down and find. It's not like you have Mount So-and-So just beaming from the landscape like with Mount Baker, Mount Rainier, Mount Hood, Mount Adams or the Three Sisters. I know a lot of people come to Colorado from the Midwest and to them the mountains just blow their mind. Coming from the Pacific Northwest I think they are grossly overrated, but still scenic. Still, I would much rather live in Bellingham, WA and take trips to Mount Baker and the Canadian Cascades than pay a billion dollars to live in Aspen and fighting the hordes of people to see Maroon Bells and some other peaks that still don't hold a candle to North Cascades or Canadian Cascades.

Last edited by RotseCherut; 03-11-2019 at 05:36 PM..
 
Old 03-11-2019, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,824 posts, read 29,779,503 times
Reputation: 14418
Quote:
Originally Posted by alloo66 View Post
I've been to Detroit, Cleveland and living in a dying city is no fun.
Those who complain should go spend some time in those cities to get some perspective. It can be SO much worse. Sure, Denver was great when it was under the radar, but I would rather have the Denver of today than the one we had then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adriftinthebay View Post
In Denver is it really that hard to get into the mountains for a day hike? How bad can traffic be on the weekends? I feel like this is a stretch.
Like a parking lot. It's not a stretch. It's solid until you're out of Summit County sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyy View Post
Where is N610DL? I am sure he has some positive things to say about Denver before moving back to Los Angeles. This thread has his name all over it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
What I dont understand is someone who has lived in a certain area their whole life, renting in their 30's with no skills crying about how pricey its gotten and transplants are moving them out. If you would have bought 20 years ago you could have made a fortune.
If you would have bought 5 years ago you'd be sitting pretty as well. I bought in Feb 2014, and I count my lucky blessings for it most every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut View Post
It is true that many cities are skyrocketing in prices. Heck, even many of the once super affordable Midwestern cities are now becoming a bit more trendy and hip. I've looked at Kansas City and Columbus, Ohio which now are also having a property boom and rent increases. Cities like Nashville are now about as expensive as Denver, which is nuts, since the job market hasn't caught up. But, I feel a city like Nashville which has a lot of entertainment, lively nightlife, friendlier people and a more sociable urban atmosphere is more worth the price than a city like Denver.
Yes, but KC and CMH are still incredibly cheap. Most vacations I take are to further explore places like those, just for my own personal satisfaction/curiosity. Got a whole bunch of the Midwest in over the last two years.

Rotse, you need to do the complete opposite of what everybody else is doing. Nashville will annoy you just as Denver does; it very much gives me the same "oh so current" yet still played out vibe. People like you and I see right through that crap, and TBH I think it will drive you nuts. TN feels like much more of a restrictive state than WA, OR, or CO in my experience; it kind of feels like you're living under a thumb; for some inexplicable reason it feels as though a minor slip up can land you in trouble/jail, I don't know if it's all the church stuff and/or the fairly rabid conservatism, but to me it feels like anything but a "free" place. I didn't even really feel that way about KY.

I implore you to make a list of the ten places that a friend of yours would least expect you to move to. IMO, any place that is doing well economically should not be on that list. No Denver, no Charlotte, no Nashville, no Austin, nowhere you've already lived before, you need somewhere on the cheaper half of the spectrum...just for a change of pace. Columbus is probably out too. Look at St. Louis, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, places that nobody talks about like they talk about Denver or Nashville (or Portland ). Put odd little places (~ 100K) in your search too.

You know where my favorite place is Rotse, and you know that when I found it 10 years ago, it wasn't on any radars (even though it may be now). Denver wasn't on a radar when I found it either. Find the next place, and you will either make it yours, or it will make you a part of it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Nashville
3,533 posts, read 5,792,325 times
Reputation: 4707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count David View Post
Yes, but KC and CMH are still incredibly cheap. Most vacations I take are to further explore places like those, just for my own personal satisfaction/curiosity. Got a whole bunch of the Midwest in over the last two years.

Rotse, you need to do the complete opposite of what everybody else is doing. Nashville will annoy you just as Denver does; it very much gives me the same "oh so current" yet still played out vibe. People like you and I see right through that crap, and TBH I think it will drive you nuts. TN feels like much more of a restrictive state than WA, OR, or CO in my experience; it kind of feels like you're living under a thumb; for some inexplicable reason it feels as though a minor slip up can land you in trouble/jail, I don't know if it's all the church stuff and/or the fairly rabid conservatism, but to me it feels like anything but a "free" place. I didn't even really feel that way about KY.

I implore you to make a list of the ten places that a friend of yours would least expect you to move to. IMO, any place that is doing well economically should not be on that list. No Denver, no Charlotte, no Nashville, no Austin, nowhere you've already lived before, you need somewhere on the cheaper half of the spectrum...just for a change of pace. Columbus is probably out too. Look at St. Louis, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, places that nobody talks about like they talk about Denver or Nashville (or Portland ). Put odd little places (~ 100K) in your search too.

You know where my favorite place is Rotse, and you know that when I found it 10 years ago, it wasn't on any radars (even though it may be now). Denver wasn't on a radar when I found it either. Find the next place, and you will either make it yours, or it will make you a part of it.

Whooa David.. That definitely was a catastrophic post for me.. Yes, it definitely struck a nerve. I would love to have a a bit of a conversation with you about what you wrote here. I am going to send you a DM, because I don't want to throw the this thread too off topic.
 
Old 03-12-2019, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale az
850 posts, read 791,272 times
Reputation: 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut View Post
It is true that many cities are skyrocketing in prices. Heck, even many of the once super affordable Midwestern cities are now becoming a bit more trendy and hip. I've looked at Kansas City and Columbus, Ohio which now are also having a property boom and rent increases. Cities like Nashville are now about as expensive as Denver, which is nuts, since the job market hasn't caught up. But, I feel a city like Nashville which has a lot of entertainment, lively nightlife, friendlier people and a more sociable urban atmosphere is more worth the price than a city like Denver. Denver still just has kind of a desolate cow-town feel to it and many people seem to spend most of their free time out of the city, rather than in it. I've never been in a city this large that completely shuts down so early. Getting a burger or Chinese food after 9PM is a chore in Denver compared to other places. Denver just feels like Wyoming meets Southern California. Endless suburban sprawl and a sleepy urban core. Even most of the bars here stop serving food at 9PM, which is crazy. I had more food options at 11PM in Olympia and Bellingham, Washington than in Denver. Eugene, OR had a more thriving nightlife scene than Denver. If you are going to have BIG CITY prices like Denver you better have BIG CITY amenities.

However, I just don't feel Denver is worth it for what you pay.. The city has no life and as others said, the cuisine leaves a lot to be desired.. THere isn't much for social activities in the city and not a lot of sociable events. The only events in Denver are typical for many places, beer festivals, lage concerts with famous musicians and professional sports games. Those are fine and I think Denver fares well there. Day to day urban activities are very limited in Denver even compared to Portland, Oregon. In fact, I kind of think even Boise has more going on than Denver and I always thought Boise was pretty desolate and dull place. Not to mention you can get a nice upscale apartment in downtown Boise for a fraction of what you pay in Denver. The mountains and wilderness in Idaho are also nicer, in my opinion, than Colorado and you have way more diversity of geography.

Of course, if you are into rock climbing, skiing, snowboarding than this is your city. It seems like a good majority of the events in Denver revolve around ski resorts and mountain activities. However, I just don't like the elevation and I rather do my outdoor stuff in Appalachians or Cascades, because at 8,000 to 12,000ft the lack of oxygen and powerful UV rays take a lot out of you. I never realized it, but the lack of water here is also really depressing. If I am out in the mountains I want to see beautiful lakes, river and streams. The ones in Colorado look so dismal to what I am use to seeing in Washington, Oregon and Idaho.

The breweries in Colorado are quite good, but the weed is not so good and no where is good as compared to the Northwest. Hahah, I guess at least people have the right to smoke weed here and unlike some, I view that as a positive and it will be something I miss leaving Colorado, as the next state I go to will not have legal weed. But, I really miss the weed back home so much in the Pacific Northwest which is much higher quality and more natural.

Yet, I had to leave the Pacific Northwest because both Washington state and Oregon became completely uninhabitable for a single professional who also cherishes some of his other freedoms and liberties that now have been compromised over there. The traffic, cost of living, polarizing politics, homeless issue (Denver doesn't even hold a candle), lack of friendliness among many other issues made me say goodbye to the Northwest. As well, Portland, OR is basically the same price as Denver with lower wages and higher taxes. Seattle is like living in San Francisco now. Neither Seattle, Portland or Denver are worth the price you pay anymore or the struggles you have to endure to have the luxury of living in some oversized, poorly made shoebox in these cities.

The mountains of Colorado are nice, but being from the Pacific Northwest I feel our mountains are much more scenic and have a much more diverse geography, especially comparing the Western side of Cascades to the Eastern side. You have majestic snowcapped peaks all over the Northwest, where in Colorado you have several 13ers and 14ers that you have to hunt down and find. It's not like you have Mount So-and-So just beaming from the landscape like with Mount Baker, Mount Rainier, Mount Hood, Mount Adams or the Three Sisters. I know a lot of people come to Colorado from the Midwest and to them the mountains just blow their mind. Coming from the Pacific Northwest I think they are grossly overrated, but still scenic. Still, I would much rather live in Bellingham, WA and take trips to Mount Baker and the Canadian Cascades than pay a billion dollars to live in Aspen and fighting the hordes of people to see Maroon Bells and some other peaks that still don't hold a candle to North Cascades or Canadian Cascades.
All those things that you want are in NY, Chicago, LA or San fran, but you will have to pay a price to live in those cities. Chicago not quite as expensive, but brutal winters. Even if you live in NY or LA for vibrancy and a better single life will you have the combination of time and money to do it.
 
Old 03-12-2019, 11:53 AM
 
49 posts, read 57,038 times
Reputation: 72
As someone who's lived in ALL of the cities that OP mentioned in original post (New York, SF, LA)...you can't compare those cities to Denver for COL. If you're complaining that the average 1-bed costs $1400 / month, consider that in SF the average 1-bed costs $3500+ to rent....and not everyone is making 3x the compensation in SF vs. Denver. I have a coworker who rents a 1-bed in a prime area for almost $5K / month. In Manhattan, there's literally zero properties you can find for sale under $1.5M that aren't rehabs (and even those rehabs are going for over $1M.) You might say that Denver isn't nearly as developed as those 3 cities but to be fair, it has a LONG way to go to get to those COL levels.

Totally understand the frustration about rising COL but I have to ask - what do you expect? In the past 5-10 years, Denver has developed into a secondary tech hub which has been great for bringing jobs/companies to the area. This in turn has helped develop the food scene in the city, the nightlife scene, etc. The cost to buy property has risen but that's true for any other desirable, secondary city in the U.S. Look at rising costs in Portland, Salt Lake City, Austin, etc. If you're already a homeowner this means your property is now worth significantly more than what you paid for it.

Life isn't perfect here but as a resident, you should be happy that your city is growing/flourishing. The alternative is being in a stagnant/declining city... If you feel like the COL isn't worth the amenities/vibe you get from being here, no one is stopping you from moving to a Midwest city or further out in Colorado. You might find lower COL but you'll also find fewer job opportunities, lower wages, and even fewer city amenities.

Also...to the poster complaining about better food/nightlife in cities like Eugene or Bellingham...I have to laugh. After reading many of your recent posts on the board, it's pretty clear that you're really disillusioned with living here and most of your posts have a very negative slant towards Denver. If that's the case, per my point above - no one is forcing you to live here. Life is short, go be happy and find a city that you vibe better with.
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