We are #2 (Denver: wedding, living in, moving to)

[NW Crow]

This is one of the better, mostly objective lists.

There are other lists with the criteria fine tuned for young people, businesses or retirees by US News (or their consultants) and by others. There are also lists for mid-sized cities and smaller towns. Not everyone wants to be in a top 125 metro. Some prefer near one or not. The top 125 population cutoff is at about at least 435,000 people. That group is where most Americans live but it does drop off a lot of nice place smaller than that in the 50,000 - 435,000 range that some people are highly interested in and may expect to see because they are sometimes included in bigger place surveys. The top 125 is only the top third of all Census designated metros and ignores micropolitan regions too.

The somewhat novel things they've done are to include migration data and a desirability survey. The first is more real and valuable. The second is a lot of hearsay and herd mentality. Most people have never even visited most of the places on the list. It also creates possibility for adjustment of the list by the authors to make it a bit more in the pocket or novel depending on which way they want to go that year. Moving to a new place and away from others are a pretty big votes. A lot of the former is based on hearsay but over time and as net migration it is a pretty important signal.


It is also they are giving greater visibility to the components of value and quality of life. Some will emphasize one or other higher than the list or other readers and they can do so more easily there than with other articles that are less transparent.


The other thing to keep in mind is that within a metro are many different pockets, experiences, better and worse than the average. Some metros may be better and worse than others on average but there can still be pockets that are more similar or buck the averages.

[duke944]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/methodology

Job Market - 20%
Value - 25%
QOL - 30%
Desirability - 15%
Net Migration - 10%

Denver scored highly on 4 out of 5 of the categories.
(out of 10)
Desirability - 8.8
Value - 6.7
Job Market - 7.9
QOL - 7.0
Net Migration 7.6

Compare that with Fayetteville
Desirability - 5.5
Value - 8.2
Job Market - 7.0
QOL - 7.5
Net Migration - 8.0

Low desirability is the one thing holding Fayetteville back.

For the record, the Front Range is not a desert climate.

Thanks for the explanation. Desirability I think can be measured in net migration, not sure why they have a seperate category - how else could they measure this? QOL seems an extremely vague term, if you have a great high paying tech job and you love to ski CO is going to provide a massive QOL score. If you have just average job and pay and don't ski or even get out much, than not so much. I dunno, pretty subjective list - and I think Denver's Value score is way too generous, what you get in housing for the money is abysmal. The fact that the twin cities is ranked so high makes this list a joke to me. Some of the worst winters and highest taxes and some of the flattest land in the entire country. If you don't love water activities it's a very boring place to live and the mosquitos are horrific. It's also gone way up in COL, the people are famously unfriendly to newcomers, and has pretty high crime. Coming in at #6 on the greatest places to live in the country nullifies any credibility this list has for me.
But anyway, it sure felt like a desert to me but what do I know, I only lived there 17 years.

[EastwardBound]

Originally Posted by Quietude

When the criteria can include Fayetteville and Boise, and San Francisco/San Jose, it's hard to take anything about this list seriously.

And I'm sure Austin is just wonderful if you can stand the weather.

But by all means, let's run around chanting, "We're Number Two! We're Number Two!"

Colorado is wonderful, particularly for our weather, but actually, if you get out a bit, Boise and NW Arkansas are also both very nice.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by duke944

Thanks for the explanation. Desirability I think can be measured in net migration, not sure why they have a seperate category - how else could they measure this? QOL seems an extremely vague term, if you have a great high paying tech job and you love to ski CO is going to provide a massive QOL score. If you have just average job and pay and don't ski or even get out much, than not so much. I dunno, pretty subjective list - and I think Denver's Value score is way too generous, what you get in housing for the money is abysmal. The fact that the twin cities is ranked so high makes this list a joke to me. Some of the worst winters and highest taxes and some of the flattest land in the entire country. If you don't love water activities it's a very boring place to live and the mosquitos are horrific. It's also gone way up in COL, the people are famously unfriendly to newcomers, and has pretty high crime. Coming in at #6 on the greatest places to live in the country nullifies any credibility this list has for me.
But anyway, it sure felt like a desert to me but what do I know, I only lived there 17 years.

Desirability is the measure of how many people actually want to live in a place. I'm sure Williston, North Dakota would have a huge net migration score because its population has nearly doubled over the last 7 years due to all the oil patch jobs. Doesn't mean that people are clamoring to live there. Admittedly it is a bit subjective because areas with name recognition will score higher.

QOL is more than just cost of living. It also includes things like crime, commute times, educational attainment, health and well being, and access to healthcare.

WRT to Denver's climate how long you lived here doesn't change the fact that, statistically speaking, Denver is a semi-arid steppe climate. Dry? Absolutely. Desert? No.

[duke944]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

Desirability is the measure of how many people actually want to live in a place. I'm sure Williston, North Dakota would have a huge net migration score because its population has nearly doubled over the last 7 years due to all the oil patch jobs. Doesn't mean that people are clamoring to live there. Admittedly it is a bit subjective because areas with name recognition will score higher.

QOL is more than just cost of living. It also includes things like crime, commute times, educational attainment, health and well being, and access to healthcare.

WRT to Denver's climate how long you lived here doesn't change the fact that, statistically speaking, Denver is a semi-arid steppe climate. Dry? Yes. Desert? No.

The front range is a really great place to live COL nonwithstanding I'll give you that, but the dry climate and high altitude were very unhealthy for me. I won't bore you with the symptoms of dehydration I fought the entire time and are all gone since moving. If it weren't for that it's easily the best place i've ever lived hands down. It was sad to leave, but the huge check we gained from our home sale definitely padded the blow.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by duke944

The front range is a really great place to live COL nonwithstanding I'll give you that, but the dry climate and high altitude were very unhealthy for me. I won't bore you with the symptoms of dehydration I fought the entire time and are all gone since moving. If it weren't for that it's easily the best place i've ever lived hands down. It was sad to leave, but the huge check we gained from our home sale definitely padded the blow.

I totally get it. The dryness/brownness is not for everyone. I'm glad you're feeling better.

I personally am the opposite. Moved to Colorado from Wisconsin as a kid. Lived here through middle school, high school, and college, and then spent my mid-20s through my mid-30s in Dallas-Fort Worth. After moving back to the Front Range I'll never voluntarily live in a humid climate again.

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

I personally am the opposite. Moved to Colorado from Wisconsin as a kid. Lived here through middle school, high school, and college, and then spent my mid-20s through my mid-30s in Dallas-Fort Worth. After moving back to the Front Range I'll never voluntarily live in a humid climate again.

This seems to be the general sentiments from a lot of posters on the Denver sub. Dry climate seems to be very high on their respective lists. I think that's fine. We can all agree that it can be pleasant in the right circumstances (summer nights for instance). However, I think people need to stop making such a big fuss over that when others talk about living elsewhere. If you look at the largest US cities by population, many of them exist in those hotter or more humid climate zones. So people obviously adapt fairly well to them. Denver's a nice place to live, folks; we wouldn't have chosen to live here if it wasn't. But it's not the end all be all for everyone. It'd be nice if people could accept that without trying to knock another place that someone has found equally as pleasant and habitable. "Oh, you're trying to live up there? Well good luck with all that humidity blah!" With all due respect, get over yourselves.

[WhatTheFox]

Originally Posted by Sir Quotes A Lot

This seems to be the general sentiments from a lot of posters on the Denver sub. Dry climate seems to be very high on their respective lists. I think that's fine. We can all agree that it can be pleasant in the right circumstances (summer nights for instance). However, I think people need to stop making such a big fuss over that when others talk about living elsewhere. If you look at the largest US cities by population, many of them exist in those hotter or more humid climate zones. So people obviously adapt fairly well to them. Denver's a nice place to live, folks; we wouldn't have chosen to live here if it wasn't. But it's not the end all be all for everyone. It'd be nice if people could accept that without trying to knock another place that someone has found equally as pleasant and habitable. "Oh, you're trying to live up there? Well good luck with all that humidity blah!" With all due respect, get over yourselves.

You think CO posters are hard on other areas humidity? Try looking in to TX or other South cities forums and you will find Colorado bashing in full effect. "Oh! But it's so dry" "Oh! But it's so isolated" "Oh! I need water" ...

[WhatTheFox]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

I totally get it. The dryness/brownness is not for everyone. I'm glad you're feeling better.

I personally am the opposite. Moved to Colorado from Wisconsin as a kid. Lived here through middle school, high school, and college, and then spent my mid-20s through my mid-30s in Dallas-Fort Worth. After moving back to the Front Range I'll never voluntarily live in a humid climate again.

While DFW is more humid that Denver I don't think it is that bad. Now Houston on the other hand ...

In most of Texas, it never cools off at nights and that is where it gets me.

[Sir Quotes A Lot]

Originally Posted by WhatTheFox

You think CO posters are hard on other areas humidity? Try looking in to TX or other South cities forums and you will find Colorado bashing in full effect. "Oh! But it's so dry" "Oh! But it's so isolated" "Oh! I need water" ...

No, I do not believe people from other states are actively going out of there way to bash Colorado. I’ve never observed that from anyone other than someone trolling other Coloradoans. Now, on the other hand I was talking to my friend the other day who came out for our wedding and mentioned how dry it felt to him. He mentioned how his skin felt tight and how he got nose bleeds. I don’t consider that bashing, just stating facts about how he felt. Different environments work better for different people.