Electric Scooters in Denver to stay (fit in, condo, neighborhoods)

[Vision67]

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/07/1...les-lime-bird/

"Denver’s dockless scooters have been rolling on a deadline. No more.

City officials originally said that scooter apps like Lime and Bird could operate in Denver until July 31, 2019. Now the city is taking steps to allow them on the streets indefinitely.

City staff established a temporary set of rules last summer after the companies shocked Denver’s government by deploying the vehicles without permission. The year-long “pilot program” was meant to test how riders would behave, and how the city might manage thousands of scooters and electric bikes.

Apparently, Denver Public Works likes what it saw. The pilot program will extend into August, according to city spokesperson Heather Burke, as the city prepares to permanently legalize the wheelie gadgets in September.

Over the last year, the city has allowed the scooter population to grow to 2,840, plus 500 dockless bikes. The city also has tried to encourage the companies to distribute bikes to neighborhoods outside of downtown, and the Denver City Council passed a law to allow scooters into bike lanes at speeds up to 30 mph. Denver Parks and Recreation also decided to allow scooters onto greenways like the Cherry Creek Trail under a temporary rule.

Denver has collected $128,250 in permit fees from the five scooter operators: Bird, Lime, Lyft, Razor and Spin.

Meanwhile, the operators have continued to invest in Denver, including with more rugged scooter models."

Last week while exiting a downtown parking lot, one of these scooters driven by a kid without a helmet zipped across the parking lot exit on the sidewalk and nearly t-boned my car.

They are too dangerous to ride on the street and they present a hazard while ridden fast on the sidewalks.

I'm not a fan. How about you?

[bluescreen73]

Not a fan. People ride them like morons, and they just dump them wherever when they're done with them. A couple months ago on social media there was a pic of a scooter that someone ditched in the middle of the South Platte near the pedestrian bridge at Commons Park.

The Rockies and the City of Denver banned them near Coors Field because people were getting hurt by/on them.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

People ... just dump them wherever when they're done with them. A couple months ago on social media there was a pic of a scooter that someone ditched in the middle of the South Platte near the pedestrian bridge at Commons Park.

You are conflating 2 different actions.
1. One important aspect of the scooter ecosystem is that you can leave them anywhere when you are done with your ride. There are no designated drop zones.
2. They are being dumped in the Platte by scooter haters, not scooter users.

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

1. One important aspect of the scooter ecosystem is that you can leave them anywhere when you are done with your ride. There are no designated drop zones.

I simply can't work out a good outcome for this. Yes, yes, in millennial-ridden city centers trying so hard to be Amsterdam, where everyone shares and plays by the rules and is just squee to death at their cooperative lifestyle, this might work... but in the remaining 99.9% of the city, scooters being left in inappropriate, inconvenient and irritating spots (regardless of how many end up in rivers etc.) is going to be a problem.

[mirage1287]

Originally Posted by Quietude

I simply can't work out a good outcome for this. Yes, yes, in millennial-ridden city centers trying so hard to be Amsterdam, where everyone shares and plays by the rules and is just squee to death at their cooperative lifestyle, this might work... but in the remaining 99.9% of the city, scooters being left in inappropriate, inconvenient and irritating spots (regardless of how many end up in rivers etc.) is going to be a problem.

"millennial-ridden" lol... So being a "millennial" has a negative connotation because there's a desire to increase mobility options to make all parts of the city more accessible?

One of the absolute worst aspects of Denver is that it's a city where a car is needed, most areas are not walkable and the public transportation is unreliable compared to more mature cities. While the policy around options like bikes/scooters has kinks that need to be worked out, these mobility options also provide easier ways to access/travel around the more urban parts of the city. That's a good thing for the city and the people who live in it.

Let me put it another way - a BAD outcome would be for Denver to avoid pursuing these type of mobility alternatives, especially given the increasing population and already overwhelmed transportation infrastructure.

[Quietude]

Originally Posted by mirage1287

"millennial-ridden" lol... So being a "millennial" has a negative connotation because there's a desire to increase mobility options to make all parts of the city more accessible?

No, but it describes a relatively small population that tends to concentrate in small areas and carry the common belief of that age group that they have single-handedly reinvented the world. That they are as wrong as every prior group to pass through that decade or so of life has yet to be fully proven, but the older ones have already moved on - quietly - to something that astonishingly resembles the life of their parents more than that of the new college grads. (Those with more historical perspective can list several such generational geniusthink iterations that still have living members.)

It's a world full of fabulous, brilliant, life-changing ideas... that work only with a homogenous group of self-selecting self-adopters who are willing to play by an agreed set of rules. These ideas tend to stop working, have poor results or actually become toxic when extended outside these collections of indoctrinated users.

One of the absolute worst aspects of Denver is that it's a city where a car is needed, most areas are not walkable and the public transportation is unreliable compared to more mature cities. While the policy around options like bikes/scooters has kinks that need to be worked out, these mobility options also provide easier ways to access/travel around the more urban parts of the city. That's a good thing for the city and the people who live in it.

Right. It's a fab idea for:

• people who live in fairly dense urban settings
• who are young and agile enough to ride a bike
• and hopefully sensible enough to do it safely
• and don't want the hassle of owning a bike
• and see that it just works absolutely perfectly
• ...for them and their loft/condo-living downtown neighbors.

The ones out here in the burbs just didn't seem to work so well. And I can't really see it working out except for displaced/underfunded types who would rather be living in a LoDo loft.

Let me put it another way - a BAD outcome would be for Denver to avoid pursuing these type of mobility alternatives, especially given the increasing population and already overwhelmed transportation infrastructure.

The world is filled with absolutely brilliant ideas addressing genuine needs and future change. (I refer you to the very loud junior contingent in DC as an example.) That these ideas have to fit into the real world, not small Disneyesque redeveloped urban neighborhoods, often escapes their boosters.

That the promoters of these scooters, who I'm sure have only the best interests of the city and the planet in mind, thought none of the rules applied to them and they could skip all those messy city ordinances and licensing and cooperation and such (see also: Lyft, Uber) says a lot about this entire process.

Sorry, millennial entrepreneurs. The rules apply to you, too... and your neighbors, and your neighborhood, and the rest of our shared city. Being super-smart and clever doesn't buy you a pass.

Nor, in the end, will it buy a miraculous new transpo option for much of anyone but those living in dense areas, able to ride a bike, etc. - it will just be less cool and profitable. But I'm sure the innovators will move on - to another briefly-voguish idea they can guerrilla into temporary profitability or a buyout, or to the old family neighborhood where no one rides bikes any more.

[LHS79]

Most scooter riders I've seen could actually use a good walk.

[mirage1287]

Originally Posted by Quietude

No, but it describes a relatively small population that tends to concentrate in small areas and carry the common belief of that age group that they have single-handedly reinvented the world. That they are as wrong as every prior group to pass through that decade or so of life has yet to be fully proven, but the older ones have already moved on - quietly - to something that astonishingly resembles the life of their parents more than that of the new college grads.

Sorry but someone needs to be thinking about re-inventing/improving/changing the status quo, otherwise we won't ever advance.

Originally Posted by Quietude

The ones out here in the burbs just didn't seem to work so well. And I can't really see it working out except for displaced/underfunded types who would rather be living in a LoDo loft.

Most of the scooters/bikes are centered around the urban parts of Denver which is where they get the most use though...and for the burbs, maybe we should be thinking about putting more of them out in areas that are less walkable. How are folks who don't own a car supposed to get around? Please don't say rely on what little/poor public transportation there is...

Originally Posted by Quietude

Sorry, millennial entrepreneurs. The rules apply to you, too... and your neighbors, and your neighborhood, and the rest of our shared city. Being super-smart and clever doesn't buy you a pass.

That's pretty condescending lol. Did you even bother to read the article that was posted at the beginning of this thread? After a year-long pilot period, the city actually likes the scooters/bikes and is now working to unroll formal rules/guidelines. Imagine that...looks like the millennial entrepreneur idea was actually a good one.

[BarryK123]

Yeah, it definitely would be better to put more cars on the road, instead.

[Westerner92]

Nobody likes them, as far as I can tell, except super basic people a couple drinks in. Without a robust bike infrastructure and designated pickup/dropoff zones, they're ridiculously imposing on public safety, but I guess a couple hundred thousand in permits is all it takes to look the other way. Maybe CCD could use that money to build grade-separated mixed-use pathways to reduce conflict with cars and pedestrians, but that's just wishful thinking. It's a shame because, from both an economic and environmental standpoint, they're great modes of transportation.