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I hear what you're saying, and I was "peeved" as they say with Barbara Ehrenreich who put down people who pay to get their houses cleaned in her book "Nicked and Dimed". I used to do that when DH and I both worked full time. It was worth it to me.
However, and maybe this is just me, but it seems kind of "off" to pay someone to get your kid in the "best" school when this is supposed to be a democracy with equal opportunities for all. Perhaps the schools could provide such guidance as Texas Ag 93 says would have been helpful. The system in Stapleton does seem complicated.
I can only speak to the Stapleton aspect and there is equal opportunity for all, at least as far as the ability to rank the schools however each family sees fit.
"Best" isn't meant in an objective sense, it's the best fit for each family. Or more specifically each child, as I know families who, despite the inconvenience, enroll their children at different schools because they feel strongly that a particular program is the right fit for one child but not another one, even in the same family. As TexasAg noted, the schools all have their particular strengths, so it's just a difference between them, not really a hierarchy of "good to not as good"
The schools vary by program, location, hours, academic focus and so many other factors. So yes, it's complicated and lots of people find that the program helps them make sense of it so that when they file their paperwork, they feel like they've correctly identified the priority of the schools, and that by listing the school that is truly their top choice, that does increase their chances of being assigned to it.
As far as I know, no one is told that it gives them any edge in getting into a particular school, although I assume they may explain some of the different factors that are given priority - for instance, there is *some* weight given to geographic proximity. It's not decisive and you don't automatically get into a particular school no matter who close it is to your house, but it's weighed in the algorithm.
We didn't live in Stapleton when my son started elementary but we had the same process for middle school because that is also an enrollment zone, although it's a combined one for Stapleton and much of Park Hill. While it's nice to have options, it really was stressful waiting to hear - although like the great majority of students, my son was assigned to his first choice, and in his case, it also meant he was able to stay there in high school as well so we got to skip the stress that time!
With regard to the bolded, yes, my initial reaction to learning about the process was that it was unnecessarily complicated and unpredictable. That overall, it was a negative. But, it actually has a lot of positive aspects to it as well. With most schools, you have a take it or leave it choice. In Stapleton, I could select (or at least attempt to select) an Elementary school that was a traditional K-5 and started later in the morning; or a school that was K-8 and had half days every other Friday; or a school that was IB focused etc. It actually presents parents with a lot more options to find the best fit. Quality and equal opportunity are not so much issues because all of the Stapleton schools are of very similar quality.
OK, I was just trying to give a little empathy for what seems, on paper, a confusing situation. I do like the idea of some of those choices. Do the schools not explain this to parents at "Kindergarten Round-up" or whatever they call it now? Do they not offer tours of the schools, as they do here in Boulder Valley? I don't understand why you'd need to pay someone to sort that out. Nor am I surprised that there is not much difference academically, as Stapleton is basically an affluent area. (Parenthetically, I think it would be a good idea for my city, Lousiville, to be an enrollment zone. There are 4 elementary schools including a K-8, and no one lives far from any of them. I live in the very NW corner of town, and I'm about 4 miles from the K-8 which is the farthest one from me.)
As for the equity issue, I'm going to give an anecdote, to wit: My daughter went to grad school at Anschutz (public health). She had a lot of professors who stated they lived in Denver. One day she said to me that she didn't understand how all these profs of hers (meaning a lot, of course, not every single one) got their kids into these choice schools when it's supposed to be a lottery situation.
In fairness, these academic types understand schools and know the buzz words, they also are the ones who get the apps in on time, etc, but it's a good question, especially since the charter school law was passed to give low achieving kids choices. That's where my concern comes in with this paying someone to help guide you along. As someone else put it, she helps parents "knife fight your way into getting your little genius in Bromwell, Sleck, Slavens, Cory, etc." https://www.cde.state.co.us/cdechart/chintro
OK, I was just trying to give a little empathy for what seems, on paper, a confusing situation. I do like the idea of some of those choices. Do the schools not explain this to parents at "Kindergarten Round-up" or whatever they call it now? Do they not offer tours of the schools, as they do here in Boulder Valley? I don't understand why you'd need to pay someone to sort that out. Nor am I surprised that there is not much difference academically, as Stapleton is basically an affluent area. (Parenthetically, I think it would be a good idea for my city, Lousiville, to be an enrollment zone. There are 4 elementary schools including a K-8, and no one lives far from any of them. I live in the very NW corner of town, and I'm about 4 miles from the K-8 which is the farthest one from me.)
As for the equity issue, I'm going to give an anecdote, to wit: My daughter went to grad school at Anschutz (public health). She had a lot of professors who stated they lived in Denver. One day she said to me that she didn't understand how all these profs of hers (meaning a lot, of course, not every single one) got their kids into these choice schools when it's supposed to be a lottery situation.
In fairness, these academic types understand schools and know the buzz words, they also are the ones who get the apps in on time, etc, but it's a good question, especially since the charter school law was passed to give low achieving kids choices. That's where my concern comes in with this paying someone to help guide you along. As someone else put it, she helps parents "knife fight your way into getting your little genius in Bromwell, Sleck, Slavens, Cory, etc." https://www.cde.state.co.us/cdechart/chintro
In DPS You apply to schools online by picking your top choices and then are assigned a school and waitlisted at the others. The decision on where to place your child is based on a handful of factors and a computer algorithm. There should not be a way to “knife your way in” as someone mentioned but I do think if you know the principal or someone else higher up, things can magically happen to make way for your child. Some people also lie about their address to increase their odds. Neither of these things should happen but they both definitely do.
Most people will be able to figure out the system, research schools and apply without the help of a business but clearly, some people like having it as an option as Keely has been in business for at least a few years. It really makes you long for the days where all kids just went to their nearest neighborhood school.
OK, I was just trying to give a little empathy for what seems, on paper, a confusing situation. I do like the idea of some of those choices. Do the schools not explain this to parents at "Kindergarten Round-up" or whatever they call it now? Do they not offer tours of the schools, as they do here in Boulder Valley? I don't understand why you'd need to pay someone to sort that out. Nor am I surprised that there is not much difference academically, as Stapleton is basically an affluent area. (Parenthetically, I think it would be a good idea for my city, Lousiville, to be an enrollment zone. There are 4 elementary schools including a K-8, and no one lives far from any of them. I live in the very NW corner of town, and I'm about 4 miles from the K-8 which is the farthest one from me.)
As for the equity issue, I'm going to give an anecdote, to wit: My daughter went to grad school at Anschutz (public health). She had a lot of professors who stated they lived in Denver. One day she said to me that she didn't understand how all these profs of hers (meaning a lot, of course, not every single one) got their kids into these choice schools when it's supposed to be a lottery situation.
In fairness, these academic types understand schools and know the buzz words, they also are the ones who get the apps in on time, etc, but it's a good question, especially since the charter school law was passed to give low achieving kids choices. That's where my concern comes in with this paying someone to help guide you along. As someone else put it, she helps parents "knife fight your way into getting your little genius in Bromwell, Sleck, Slavens, Cory, etc." https://www.cde.state.co.us/cdechart/chintro
There is no kindergarten round up when your child might be attending one of a half dozen or more different schools. And most families don't have time to schedule visits to all of those half dozen different schools which of course means time away from work. The point of the consulting sessions is to give people enough information to start to narrow down the options and then pick maybe 2 or 3 to visit and then decide how to prioritize them after that.
Bromwell, Steck (not Sleck), etc are boundary schools, so if you live in the neighborhood, your kid gets assigned there, just like in most other places. You can go through the choice lottery to try to get a space if you don't live in the boundary, but the reason that most of these academic types get their kids into these schools is because that's where they live. I work at a hospital here in Denver so I know these people personally and where they live. I'd be surprised if more than a very few exceptions had to use the choice process to get their kids into these high performing schools because for them, it is their neighborhood school.
Whether the consultant helps parents "knife fight their way in" I couldn't say, because the people I know in these schools have, well, bought their way in if you want to be blunt about it since they can afford these very desirable locations. That of course is an equity issue because even within the same school district, money buys access to better schools, but that's a far different discussion.
Whether the consultant helps parents "knife fight their way in" I couldn't say, because the people I know in these schools have, well, bought their way in if you want to be blunt about it since they can afford these very desirable locations. That of course is an equity issue because even within the same school district, money buys access to better schools, but that's a far different discussion.
If you're attending a Preparing for Denver Kindergarten course, you've already bought your way in to a desirable neighborhood and likely just desire more information. My "knife fight their way in" quip is more jest than anything else, but their are absolutely ways to game the selection process to a degree. Getting your child categorized as HGT, or having a certain IEP helps, as does getting into an ECE program at a preferred boundary school (it's a weight for the algorithm that does move you up). These are things that are mentioned in the course.
I think Keeley's biggest contribution is letting parents know that 80% of them having nothing to worry about- their kid will be fine in pretty much any DPS school. It's the bottom and top deciles where parents have to be a bit more selective in their kid's institution to ensure that they're getting a preferred educational outcome.
There is no kindergarten round up when your child might be attending one of a half dozen or more different schools. And most families don't have time to schedule visits to all of those half dozen different schools which of course means time away from work. The point of the consulting sessions is to give people enough information to start to narrow down the options and then pick maybe 2 or 3 to visit and then decide how to prioritize them after that.
Bromwell, Steck (not Sleck), etc are boundary schools, so if you live in the neighborhood, your kid gets assigned there, just like in most other places. You can go through the choice lottery to try to get a space if you don't live in the boundary, but the reason that most of these academic types get their kids into these schools is because that's where they live. I work at a hospital here in Denver so I know these people personally and where they live. I'd be surprised if more than a very few exceptions had to use the choice process to get their kids into these high performing schools because for them, it is their neighborhood school.
Whether the consultant helps parents "knife fight their way in" I couldn't say, because the people I know in these schools have, well, bought their way in if you want to be blunt about it since they can afford these very desirable locations. That of course is an equity issue because even within the same school district, money buys access to better schools, but that's a far different discussion.
1. I guess in that case I'd say there should be a Kindergarten Round-up of some kind, e.g. a type of parent meeting done by DPS, for FREE, that should explain this set-up.
2. I guess I would find the time to do these tours, at least tours of the ones I personally was interested in, if I was that concerned about what school my kid went to. Most of these people who can afford to pay for a consultant have professional jobs where they can get time off fairly easily. This does seem like "where there's a will there's a way" stuff.
3. My daughter was talking about professors who had kids in charter and other choice schools, not their neighborhood schools.
ETA: It's been said that the wealthy have always had school "choice" because they can choose to live where there are good schools, or send their kids to private schools.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-23-2020 at 01:19 PM..
I am currently going through the same level of stress - having had applied to Open Enrollment/Choice programs with several districts (BVSD, St Vrain Valley School District, Jefco and Adams12) - for the eldest son who will be going to High School in the upcoming 2020-2021 school year. Also for the youngest son who will be a fifth grader and needing to change to another K-8 or Elementary, to be closer to the eldest brother's HS.
Coming from an European social and educational background, I personally find the system here strange and unfair in a way: why should admission be solely decided by how far do you live from a given school? The European system seems more fair and competitive, overall: the middle or high school administers an entrance exam (math, literature, etc) and ... let the best kids win! In that way, the targeted school will be almost be guaranteed to have a good synergy, with students being almost at the same level of learning capacity, aptitudes and interest. And I'm not talking about vocational schools, but normal, general curriculum schools.
Btw, so far we've secured a place for our eldest son, with these high schools: Monarch High (BVSD), Niwot High (SSVD) and Jefferson Secondary (Jeffco). He's also waitlisted (position 19) for Fairview High (BVSD). Centaurus High is the designated neighborhood school (but I'm kind of having a bad gut feeling about Centaurus, can't rationally explain why, except if I'm looking at the school rankings alone and SAT/ACT scores).
Which of these would you go for? Any opinions and insights on either of those high schools, is greatly appreciated. Our son is not into sports or arts, so he's more interested in math, computer science, or STEM in general, and the expectation is to continue with college/university.
why should admission be solely decided by how far do you live from a given school? The European system seems more fair and competitive, overall: the middle or high school administers an entrance exam (math, literature, etc) and ... let the best kids win! In that way, the targeted school will be almost be guaranteed to have a good synergy, with students being almost at the same level of learning capacity, aptitudes and interest. And I'm not talking about vocational schools, but normal, general curriculum schools.
Btw, so far we've secured a place for our eldest son, with these high schools: Monarch High (BVSD), Niwot High (SSVD) and Jefferson Secondary (Jeffco). He's also waitlisted (position 19) for Fairview High (BVSD). Centaurus High is the designated neighborhood school (but I'm kind of having a bad gut feeling about Centaurus, can't rationally explain why, except if I'm looking at the school rankings alone and SAT/ACT scores).
Which of these would you go for? Any opinions and insights on either of those high schools, is greatly appreciated. Our son is not into sports or arts, so he's more interested in math, computer science, or STEM in general, and the expectation is to continue with college/university.
Thanks.
The unfairness stems from property taxes dictating school funding with richer areas winning better-funded schools. However, an entrance exam admission process would not solve that problem but would be just a different version of the same problems of inequity, because students from better-off backgrounds/families would have an advantage on the exams.
If it were me, of those you've mentioned I'd go for Monarch or Niwot, whichever has the better feel for you. But I also do think you're probably a lot more worried about this than you need to be and your child would get a solid education at any of them without going to all this trouble and uprooting the younger sibling, etc.
The unfairness stems from property taxes dictating school funding with richer areas winning better-funded schools. However, an entrance exam admission process would not solve that problem but would be just a different version of the same problems of inequity, because students from better-off backgrounds/families would have an advantage on the exams.
That's an interesting angle. To be honest, back in my country of birth in Eastern Europe, I wouldn't say that I was from a well-off family, but the family's background is one of earnest, hardworking, caring and mindful of everything they do in general, like wanting to make informed and conscientious decisions about future, especially education-wise. I've been living under a full-throttle, Communist regime during that time. Everything had felt very egalitarian and socialist, obviously. The primary and middle schools I have attended to were "designated/neighborhood schools", without anything special about them, honestly. Just teachers and kids willing to teach / learn, while the class / social aspect mattered less. And actually some of these schools were in more violent neighborhoods, with kids coming from a less ideal background. All in all, I could say that I have a fair chance at the system (merit- and hard work-based), and never had any "after-taste" or bad feeling about richer or more privileged kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi
If it were me, of those you've mentioned I'd go for Monarch or Niwot, whichever has the better feel for you.
I tend to favor those two as well. Monarch seems to be fine academically, although the concern is the more significant drug affairs that seem to be happening there, and maybe a tad more focus on sports than needed? Regarding Niwot, it has an interesting IB program (like Fairview), but the wife was a bit negatively surprised by the dark classrooms / no windows, less impressive library, odd placement of lunch room etc. One thing that surprised me positively about Niwot (in addition to the IB program), was that they seem to have a very responsive stuff - for example they would like the parents to already work on making course selections etc, as early as tomorrow 01/29/2020.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi
But I also do think you're probably a lot more worried about this than you need to be and your child would get a solid education at any of them without going to all this trouble and uprooting the younger sibling, etc.
Yeah, uprooting the younger sibling is painful. He's currently at Aspen Creek K-8 (along with his brother). Wife is also thinking that Niwot is a longer commute - the bottleneck is not the US-287 but the little intra-town road that gets to the Niwot High (about 2miles driving from main 287).
Thanks a lot for your insights!
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