Peace Out Denver: Review of 10 years living on the Front Range (Arvada: appointed, sales)

[sammy87]

We recently moved out of the Denver metro after 10 years. I have some thoughts for those looking to relocate. We moved there when I was 30 married no kids. Moved out married and 2 kids.

Economy: Solid, good jobs to be had. I have a great job but was able to work remote. Best evidence is the housing market and all the construction. It felt like the front range doubled in that 10 yr period.

Weather: This is a pro and con. Pro from the lack of humidity coming from the south and abundant sunshine from the midwest. The cool nights were pleasant. However, the lack of humidity became a problem after a while and it was missed. THe sun is intense and summer days were often spent in hte shade. The lack of rain is a real issue.

Housing: We made great money off our homes. But CO homes are cheap and the lots are tiny. THey are completely over priced for what you get. I get the demand is driving price but the quality is def not. We ultimately wanted to raise our kids on a larger piece of property. You would have to move far east or in the foot hills which I didnt want to do.

Outdoor Rec: Amazing hiking, biking, skiing and its all close. However, I was a weekend warrior and the crowds made it less fun every year. I gave up skiing for hte most part. Dealing with I70 on my days off just wasnt worth it.

Cities: Denver was really nice but went downhill fast with covid. Bums everywhere. Union station was a great reclamation project but now crime/drug ridden. We quit goign to Denver and most people in the burbs i know did as well. Arvada was our address adn its ok. Nothing special. THere are better suburban towns. Once they put in the light rail stop more bums moved in. If I did it all over again I would have moved elsewhere.

People: I made good friends but as time went on many people were very political in their conversations. That group was very 1 sided as well. I wont miss many people from teh area.

Schools: Not a fan of public education. Was not impressed by many involved in education in this state. Met a number of teachers that were wackos in our hood. But a chunk of the population thinks they can do no wrong.

Ultimately I think CO was a great place to start your career and be a young professional. I dont think it would be a good option of you dont have a solid income. Not convinced its good to raise a family either. We moved out for many reasons. COL, politics and climate are all up there. I think the drought and fires will be ongoing issues with no end in sight. We made stupid money off our homes and are not lookign back.

Good luck

[Thoreau424]

I agree heavily with your observations. It's a place to try, and works for some/many, but also a place that might not live up to expectations. There's an image from afar that it's perfect and has it "all together", but up close, doesn't live up to the hype. Also overpriced for what you actually get (home size, quality, yard space, etc.) Best of wishes to you and the future!

[cowboyxjon]

Agree with your observations. I think this is a good reference for someone who might be considering a move to Denver. Some of these issues are happening in other cities as well, but people who want to move here should know that Denver has not been immune from rising crime, rising cost of living, and increased population.

Among them, folks who want to move to Denver because of proximity to outdoor recreation should pay attention to your observations about that. I still camp during the summer but weekend warrior type stuff like a quick hike or a day of skiing has become quite crowded and difficult.

[modest]

I think your observations are fair and as objectively accurate as they can be. Admittedly, I don't have kids, so I can't say much for their education. My wife is a teacher though, and let's just say it's not an easy business for them either.

The bums and vagrants are out of control. I don't know exactly when that happened, but it seemed to me that the population began ramping up around 2015-16. The tent camps and whatever you want to call the broken down RVs scattered about are distasteful and a drain on public resources. I don't know what the solution is to that, so I'll leave it at that.

The weather and outdoors recreation will be what I miss the most when I finally gain the courage to pack it in. Cycling is what initially drew me out, but I picked up other activities like running, hiking, snow shoeing, and skiing. While my home state has plenty of that, I don't know that I would have met the adventurous people to pull me out of my shell. It was 55 and sunny this afternoon, in February mind you, when I went for a run.

The wild fires are out of control and will only get worse. The lack of water resources will become a problem as well, it's just a matter of when. The AQI in the metro has been a big health factor for me, as I find that I'm slowly becoming asthmatic during outdoor physical activities.

There are certainly a decent amount of jobs here, but I think the economy is shifting quite a bit (towards high tech?). I found it relatively easy to work my way up in various fields and industries in the first half of my career, but the competition today is a lot more stiff. Even with my 15 years of experience in various areas, I find it challenging to compete. I either don't have enough experience in one thing, or not techie enough in another. This was supposed to be the easiest part of my career (mid-career), and in fact it's proven to be the most difficult.

The COL is definitely prohibitive for many. We just re-fi'd, so we're probably here for at least another 2-3 years until we break even. I'm hoping the market will hold up at least until then. I would not move here almost based on this factor alone.

I had the best time of my life in my 20s out here. So many new people to meet, and so many new people open to meeting. 30s hit, and everything changed. People settled down and had kids, moved away, this and that. While I love my life with my wife, life is not nearly as exciting as it once was.

Just my .02.

Anyway, I wish you well in the next phase of your life. I hope your new home treats you well.

[modest]

Originally Posted by cowboyxjon

Among them, folks who want to move to Denver because of proximity to outdoor recreation should pay attention to your observations about that. I still camp during the summer but weekend warrior type stuff like a quick hike or a day of skiing has become quite crowded and difficult.

100% this.

Only two main corridors out of the metro and to the mountains: 285 and I-70. Pick your poison. Hiking, camping, and skiing have, at times, become more of a nuisance than the pleasure they used to bring me.

[davebarnes]

Moved here in 1982.
Love the climate — coming from the Northeast. No bugs!
Taxes are low to reasonable.
DPS had forced busing when our daughter was ready for kindergarten, so off to private schools for her.
We love our immediate neighbors. Most are liberals.
Enjoy having a small 3000 sqft lot. Very low maintenance.
Only see homeless in CBD, so not very visible.
We park our car in our garage, so no crime concerns there.
I hope to die in our current house (which we bought in 2011), so don’t care about prices.
46 eating and drinking establishments within 6 blocks of my house is a “good thing”. 100+ within a 2-mile walking radius is even better.
4 parks within easy walking distance.
We walk everywhere and only drive 2000 miles per year.
Haved worked from home since 1996. Now, 98.67% retired.

[sammy87]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

Moved here in 1982.
Love the climate — coming from the Northeast. No bugs!
Taxes are low to reasonable.
DPS had forced busing when our daughter was ready for kindergarten, so off to private schools for her.
We love our immediate neighbors. Most are liberals.
Enjoy having a small 3000 sqft lot. Very low maintenance.
Only see homeless in CBD, so not very visible.
We park our car in our garage, so no crime concerns there.
I hope to die in our current house (which we bought in 2011), so don’t care about prices.
46 eating and drinking establishments within 6 blocks of my house is a “good thing”. 100+ within a 2-mile walking radius is even better.
4 parks within easy walking distance.
We walk everywhere and only drive 2000 miles per year.
Haved worked from home since 1996. Now, 98.67% retired.

Taxes are a bit tricky though.

Car Registration is high, property Tax is low but.....If you live in a newer development you have a property tax and special tax on top of it. The newer developments are hard to avoid. My home was 3 years old and next year the tax bill would be over $11k. And it just keeps going up. State income tax is pretty lowish. Sales tax is high.

[mkwensky]

Originally Posted by cowboyxjon

Among them, folks who want to move to Denver because of proximity to outdoor recreation should pay attention to your observations about that. I still camp during the summer but weekend warrior type stuff like a quick hike or a day of skiing has become quite crowded and difficult.

I don't think this is a Denver specific issue. Traffic seems to have gotten worse for all the desirable cities.
It might've gotten a lot worse than ten years ago but I don't think it's quite that bad. It still took me only a little over an hour to get to good skiing on a Saturday morning, and I usually leave around 9am. The traffic returning to Denver on Sunday afternoon is noticeable but adds only about 20 minutes compared to normal commute times. The number of people fishing and hiking on trails also aren't that high compared to what I'm used to, coming from Texas and the Northeast.

Overall Denver still offers a great package to someone who cares about access to nature and having things to do in the city. There might be other cities that are stronger in both but they'll be more expensive or in worse climate. For those who no longer care about having things to do in the city moving away might work, but if you hope to find a better overall package you'll likely end up disappointed.

[cowboyxjon]

Originally Posted by mkwensky

I don't think this is a Denver specific issue. Traffic seems to have gotten worse for all the desirable cities.
It might've gotten a lot worse than ten years ago but I don't think it's quite that bad. It still took me only a little over an hour to get to good skiing on a Saturday morning, and I usually leave around 9am. The traffic returning to Denver on Sunday afternoon is noticeable but adds only about 20 minutes compared to normal commute times. The number of people fishing and hiking on trails also aren't that high compared to what I'm used to, coming from Texas and the Northeast.

Overall Denver still offers a great package to someone who cares about access to nature and having things to do in the city. There might be other cities that are stronger in both but they'll be more expensive or in worse climate. For those who no longer care about having things to do in the city moving away might work, but if you hope to find a better overall package you'll likely end up disappointed.

I think it depends on the situation. For example, hiking in spring/summer/fall can be a pain in the neck if you want to go on a Saturday or Sunday morning to hike closer to Denver or Boulder. Depending on the destination, parking at/near the trailheads can be a hot mess, which puts a damper on the day when you have to circle the area waiting for someone to leave.

And yeah, I'm sure this happens elsewhere too. But I think folks who want to move to Denver with the intention (fantasy?) to go out every weekend to ski or hike need to be aware of this reality. There are times when it can be a real hassle, and in my experience, it's become more of a hassle within the last 10 years.

It really depends on someone's level of tolerance, I guess. But it is an issue to think about if you want to move to Denver with the intention to constantly be outdoors.

[NearFantastica]

Originally Posted by modest

30s hit, and everything changed. People settled down and had kids, moved away, this and that. While I love my life with my wife, life is not nearly as exciting as it once was.

This is why I'm glad I never got married or had kids, I'm in my early 30s and still living life like my 20s