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I feel that your statement of having gay roommates is almost equivalent to having black friends. It doesn't entirely describe that experience.
Well, perhaps it does when you've hung out in gay establishments well over 100-times. I've discussed things with gay individuals in coffee shops, bars, or just here or there down the street having been exposed to that community with my roommate. There's a reason they call straight people "Breeders." Most don't want kids. Fidelity is a very rare thing in that community, though it does happen, as you no doubt see in some gay couples who want kids.
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As to being kid-obsessed, I again respectfully entirely disagree with your sentiment. Popping out as many kids as we can will only push us faster towards devastation as this planet and it's resources can hardly sustain what we have already. Just take a look at scientists' views of the future of this planet, not just this silly little country.
Scientists and naysayers have been calling for the doom and destruction of this planet for centuries. See John Malthus. It's a steaming pile of you-know-what as far as I'm concerned. No, I'm not a believer in human-induced global warming. I work as a medical scientist day-in and day-out. I expect far more hard evidence than what I've seen produced by the soft science of the global warming cult. Food has never been more plentiful on this planet. And further, I'm not the least bit concerned about over-population here in the US. We're not really breeding that quicky and we're producing the majority of the technology that will allow the world to continue to progress as it has in the future. While the US has reduced emissions over the years, it has sky-rocketed in the developing world. I don't really harbor any guilt in that regard being here. Sorry.
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Re: Canada. That's very interesting. I won't comment since I have no knowing on that area, but I'll begin reading about what you claim.
Sure. Take a look. There's no way either Canada or Europe (or Japan) will be able to maintain their socialistic ways of life with their current poor rates of reproduction--indeed, the lowest the world has ever seen. Spain, for instance, is only producing 1.15 children per mother. It requires 2.1 to even maintain a population. Inevitably they'll be faced with an aged society with a very small workforce--a much reduced workforce that will be expected to pay for the burdens of that aged society. The tax base simply won't be there. Their social systems will collapse, the young will be over-burdened, businesses will falter under increased taxation, etc... Keeping a steady to a slowly growing population is vital for the economic success of a nation. Nevermind the fact that Europe is about to have its entire culture torn apart by a rapidly reproducing Muslim population as opposed to a non-reproducing native populace.
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And back to Brian, I think what's much more important here is a feeling of mutual respect for one another's choices, no matter whether you think gay parents are not the norm, or whether you think that people who choose not to have kids are hedonistic. Which BTW, what's wrong with wanting to be happy?
Happiness is to a very large extent a product of one's culture. When personal fulfillment completely outside of the family unit is seen as increasingly more the norm, we have a society that is increasingly hedonistic and increasingly unstable over time. I don't hold individuals to this level of judgement, but I do hold that opinion of society.
This is a very interesting question, and I've been pondering where you could find such a community. My first thought is that you might have better luck in a neighborhood where the residents are empty nesters, since thirty-somethings are usually in child-bearing mode. Unfortunately, that might subject you to a lot of pestering about your choice and limit the possibilities of having a social life including your neighbors. Have you tried finding a Denver child-free group? If you connected with others who share your child-free lifestyle, they might be a better source of information than we can be.
Wow... kid free. Kids are this strange and wonderful 20 years where you are obsessed and nothing else much matters. And we think we are on the mild side. My kids are on launch and since we are younger than the rest of our peer group (I was a youthful breeder for a "professional"), we are looking for more kidless folk. But I totally get that crazy obsession. We are horrible....and have no insight.... That is why no one can stand us but other crazed parents....
Brian_M, have you ever considered moving to Las Vegas? It's probably the most child un-friendly city in the US. For your purposes I think it would blow away Denver socially.
As for your statements about gays and children, show me the numbers. Otherwise, your comments are just opinion, same as mine, meaning neither you or I are exactly "right". I do disagree with you though and feel your opinion is a bit naive.
As for natural resources, food and emissions are most certainly just one factor. You have neglected several other factors including energy. I do not think that today's scientists are doom and gloom, but are doing honest research that does show at our current rate, we won't survive. I can see you aren't a believer in human induced global warming. I am. So let's just agree to disagree.
Last night I had this obnoxious neighbor playing screaming loud music at 11:30 pm. I went to bed early but woke up by the noise. We've been dealing with her forever it feels like. Anyway, she's a gma and takes care of her grandkid full-time. We hardly ever see the mom. I thought of you and your ideas of how we need to have more kids and how we are veering away from the traditional families. I agree that the traditional family is gone, but when I look at this lady, I think of the millions just like her and think good god, having more kids is the last thing we need. When you look at the teen pregnancy rates and the drop out rates, I just feel like more kids will just bring us closer to doom.
I still haven't had time to look at your claims of Canada's child-lessness problem, or Europe or Japan, but I have serious doubts to your claims. It seems quite far-fetched. I'm not even going to bother to comment on your statement about Muslims as I feel that borders on just plain idiocy and hatred. A quick look at history might help you work through some of those issues.
Your views on happiness and hedonistic ideology just don't agree with me. You didn't even bother to address my thoughts on the definition of hedonism, which leads me to believe that any further response to you is just fueling more useless argument.
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Originally Posted by CMartel2
Well, perhaps it does when you've hung out in gay establishments well over 100-times. I've discussed things with gay individuals in coffee shops, bars, or just here or there down the street having been exposed to that community with my roommate. There's a reason they call straight people "Breeders." Most don't want kids. Fidelity is a very rare thing in that community, though it does happen, as you no doubt see in some gay couples who want kids.
Scientists and naysayers have been calling for the doom and destruction of this planet for centuries. See John Malthus. It's a steaming pile of you-know-what as far as I'm concerned. No, I'm not a believer in human-induced global warming. I work as a medical scientist day-in and day-out. I expect far more hard evidence than what I've seen produced by the soft science of the global warming cult. Food has never been more plentiful on this planet. And further, I'm not the least bit concerned about over-population here in the US. We're not really breeding that quicky and we're producing the majority of the technology that will allow the world to continue to progress as it has in the future. While the US has reduced emissions over the years, it has sky-rocketed in the developing world. I don't really harbor any guilt in that regard being here. Sorry.
Sure. Take a look. There's no way either Canada or Europe (or Japan) will be able to maintain their socialistic ways of life with their current poor rates of reproduction--indeed, the lowest the world has ever seen. Spain, for instance, is only producing 1.15 children per mother. It requires 2.1 to even maintain a population. Inevitably they'll be faced with an aged society with a very small workforce--a much reduced workforce that will be expected to pay for the burdens of that aged society. The tax base simply won't be there. Their social systems will collapse, the young will be over-burdened, businesses will falter under increased taxation, etc... Keeping a steady to a slowly growing population is vital for the economic success of a nation. Nevermind the fact that Europe is about to have its entire culture torn apart by a rapidly reproducing Muslim population as opposed to a non-reproducing native populace.
Happiness is to a very large extent a product of one's culture. When personal fulfillment completely outside of the family unit is seen as increasingly more the norm, we have a society that is increasingly hedonistic and increasingly unstable over time. I don't hold individuals to this level of judgement, but I do hold that opinion of society.
Well, I should probably know better than to get involved in this one, but fools rush in. . .
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Originally Posted by lalahartma
How disappointing! I think child-free living is not as rare as one might think!
FYI: search on google for child-free
Edit: and while Colorado Springs is definately family-town, we are doing ok here.
Yeah, I have a niece there who is married, in her 30s as is her DH and they are child-free. They like the Springs! They live in a townhouse complex, so there aren't as many kids as would be in a single family neighborhood. That is one route to take, but you wouldn't have the yard, and work space.
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Originally Posted by Brian_M
It'd be nice if there were some understanding from the "child-centric" population, but unfortunately those people (adults) are to blame for my 100% disgust with everything child related. For without the crappy "Adults with Kids" attitude (not parenting, because that's a rarity anymore), there wouldn't be annoying kids, and the whole community of people like myself wouldn't be looking for a place where we can be Away from that disgusting madness.
Hey, you want to cast stones, I'm going to turn right around and follow your lead.
Who cares if my wife and I don't want to have children? Who's life does it impact but our own (sorry the same can't be said for those with children). My life is certainly NOT "hedonistic", and is Very much family oriented. We just chose to limit that family. I choose to not harbor the selfish opinion that MY genes are so important that they need to continue on.
It boils down to person choice and the RESPECT (that has not been present in the latest replies here from the procreation crowd) that every person can make their own free choice. And, again, it's that crappy attitude that is the continued driving factor for my personal choice. I never want to be associated with that nastiness.
Well, you may think you are not affecting anyone else with your choice, but I've got news. You, too, will get old (unless you die young) and likely need some help. You will have to rely on nieces, nephews, and paid professionals rather than your kids for assistance.
I personally think people who don't want kids shouldn't have them, but I really get annoyed at parents being blamed for every living problem! It's hard work.
Back OT, you could try some of the older areas of the "inner ring" burbs, e.g. Old Englewood, Old Arvada, etc. There aren't the tons of kids there as in some of the newer suburbs. However, your neighbors are likely to be empty nesters. As long as you don't rant about WHY you have chosen not to have kids, you should get along fine. Some empty-nesters are quite young; you'd probably have neighbors at least close to your age.
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