What do you dislike about Denver? (Colorado Springs, Fort Collins: grocer, move, design)

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

Another dislike I have is the sprawl. Just like Phoenix, Tucson or LA. Denver is a very sprawled, car-dependent western city without a decent subway system. It makes it hard to get around, and makes much of the city look boring and unnattractive.

What else? I'm interested in hearing it.

I dislike endless suburban sprawl, too. However, except for a handful of expensive cities like New York & San Francisco, most American cities are (unfortunately) sprawled out.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

And I hate the Denver attitude of "You must have a car" but well, it's true unfortunatly. When I tell people I don't have a car they look at me like i'm a freak, or a bum. Lots of people work low paying jobs, and a huge amount of their money just gos right into their car like it's their child, and that is just the norm here.

I so agree with you on this one. Unfortunately, this is soooo common across America. People working minimum or near-minimum wage jobs who put all their money into their cars.

Instead of pushing to raise the minimum wage, we out to spend less on building roads and more on mass transit so that low wage earners could live with dignity. It would benefit higher wage earners, too since they could drive less and take up less space on the roads for those who insist on driving at all costs.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I so agree with you on this one. Unfortunately, this is soooo common across America. People working minimum or near-minimum wage jobs who put all their money into their cars.

Instead of pushing to raise the minimum wage, we out to spend less on building roads and more on mass transit so that low wage earners could live with dignity. It would benefit higher wage earners, too since they could drive less and take up less space on the roads for those who insist on driving at all costs.

What??? The low wage earners should ride the bus so the high earners can drive? What's wrong with this picture?

[edesign]

Originally Posted by edesign

New Orleans has a special vibe to it! More so than ANY other place I have ever been to in my life...definitely a city that stands out amongst the rest.

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

That's because it's practically a 3rd world city.

Originally Posted by edesign

How do you figure? Because it's not as sophisticated as the trendy CA cities? It couldn't have a special vibe because of its rich cultural history...could it? Music (specifically jazz, blues, and Cajun/Zydeco), food (don't get me started, I miss it), rich French heritage, and so on...

Hey Escape...I'm still waiting for your answer

[MantaRay]

It seems to me that some have a, I'll say "different" perspective on what sprawl is. At its root, sprawl is poor land usage which typically happens in America in the form of all businesses in downtown, all residences in the suburbs but also in too many larger lot sizes in metro areas of millions. The common thread is zoning and how haphazard it is. That makes a city car-focused and you can usually tell that it is by its lack of pedestrian focus. Try biking from an Atlanta suburb to downtown and you'll see what I mean by lack of pedestrian focus. Sprawl isn't just how far the metro area reaches. It's a combination of how unlikely is it that people live near where they work and how likely it is that everybody is going the same direction on the same highway at the same rush hour times of the day- everybody travelling from the outskirts to downtown in the morning and from downtown to the outskirts in the evening.

When I look at Denver, I don't see all the business in downtown and all the residences in the burbs. I see a city embracing urban living but also embracing the idea of spreading out the work centers. Downtown is one. DTC is another. Not everybody works in the city center. On top of that, lot size around the Denver metro is fairly meager, generally speaking. Suburban homes are built closer together which increases suburban density and helps to counteract sprawl. Even many of the McMansions are on meager lot sizes. Furthermore, it's probably easiest in Denver of all big cities in the US to bike from the suburbs to downtown.

I'd say Denver is among the LEAST sprawled of any US city over 1 million.

[vegaspilgrim]

Or to put it another way, MantaRay, "sprawl" is where everybody else lives.

[steveindenver]

I'd say Denver is among the LEAST sprawled of any US city over 1 million.

A. The city has < 1 million. By a very large margin.

B. Surely you jest. Idiots have almost closed the gap from Ft. Collins to the Springs. Drive until you qualify has taken a new meaning with morons along E470.

Denver is no LA yet, but as more of those don't know how to drive full on the gas or brakes asshats move here it seems only a matter of time.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

A. The city has < 1 million. By a very large margin.

B. Surely you jest. Idiots have almost closed the gap from Ft. Collins to the Springs. Drive until you qualify has taken a new meaning with morons along E470.

A. I was talking metro area. Atlanta proper has < 1 million. By a very large margin. But Atlanta's interstates have the traffic of some 5+ million, all pretty much going toward downtown in the morning and away from downtown in the evening. Who actually thinks that Atlanta or any big city's interstates reflect only the traffic volumes of that city-proper population? Does Denver interstate traffic reflect a < 1 million poplulation? Denver metro has > 1 million and its interstates carry the volume of a > 1 million population. By a very large margin. Therefore Denver qualifies as one of the least sprawled of US cities over 1 million.

B. No jest. How far people may be willing to drive and how far people HAVE TO drive due to poor zoning or inaffordability anywhere inside a city's "loop" are two different things. If people live in the southern outskirts of Denver and drive to a job in Colorado Springs by choice, does that make Colorado Springs horribly sprawled?

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

or to put it another way, mantaray, "sprawl" is where everybody else lives.

Heh heh.

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I dislike endless suburban sprawl, too. However, except for a handful of expensive cities like New York & San Francisco, most American cities are (unfortunately) sprawled out.

New York City's not sprawled out? I seem to recall driving through a lot of Jersey suburb just to reach Manhattan!

Can't speak for San Francisco though as I haven't been there.

I will say that at least by area Denver seems better on the sprawl front than, say, Phoenix, but that could be due partly to a smaller population and partly to fewer highway options (funny how that works.) I have heard a lot of complaints about Denver area suburban sprawl, though.