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I don't think this article is news for celebration at all. In fact it makes me kind of queasy. The weird thing about Denver in the last decade, and this forum is a great example of this, is so many PEOPLE want to move there, for all kinds of different reasons, the whole bandwagon effect, but I rarely if ever hear about BUSINESS that's relocating to Denver, growing companies in Denver, successful initiatives, tax benefits, etc to lure in industry.
What we have instead is a place where the economy seems to be stagnant or even shrinking, but rather than people coming and creating jobs, entrepreneurs creating value, it's just more and more of the same people with generic B.A./B.S. in "____" degrees fighting for the same limited administrative/services/overhead positions. And meanwhile, cocky nativists and boosters (and by no means do I think you are in this group, livecontent) think Denver is already so great it doesn't have to work hard to expand its economy. I'd rather live in a place that's underrated, kind of unknown, growing slowly but steadily yet underneath the radar screen, a place that not everybody and his/her dog wants to move to. It's one of the reasons why I'm still highly considering moving to Albuquerque.
I don't think this article is news for celebration at all. In fact it makes me kind of queasy. The weird thing about Denver in the last decade, and this forum is a great example of this, is so many PEOPLE want to move there, for all kinds of different reasons, the whole bandwagon effect, but I rarely if ever hear about BUSINESS that's relocating to Denver, growing companies in Denver, successful initiatives, tax benefits, etc to lure in industry.
What we have instead is a place where the economy seems to be stagnant or even shrinking, but rather than people coming and creating jobs, entrepreneurs creating value, it's just more and more of the same people with generic B.A./B.S. in "____" degrees fighting for the same limited administrative/services/overhead positions. And meanwhile, cocky nativists and boosters (and by no means do I think you are in this group, livecontent) think Denver is already so great it doesn't have to work hard to expand its economy. I'd rather live in a place that's underrated, kind of unknown, growing slowly but steadily yet underneath the radar screen, a place that not everybody and his/her dog wants to move to. It's one of the reasons why I'm still highly considering moving to Albuquerque.
A few thoughts on this.
First off, Colorado seems to be doing better than average so far with the recession:
I saw an interview with someone on an economic development board for the Denver metro area who said he's not surprised by the news because for the last 30 years there has been a concentrated effort to diversify the economy here.
Also, here's a summary of the VC money coming into Colorado for '08:
In terms of startup activity, we are certainly not a Bay Area, Boston, or even Seattle. I saw an article a while back that said Denver/Boulder was the number one second tier area for startups in the US. I think that's pretty accurate (and not just around startups).
It is also true there aren't a lot of national companies headquartered here; there are a lot of small companies or divisions of larger companies here. Every couple years it seems we're on the short list for a big company to move here, but it doesn't happen.
Personally, I think Colorado is entrepreneurial but pretty laid back about it. The general culture here isn't that you have to change the world and make millions. People tend to be well-educated and aware of cutting-edge technology and business.
Colorado had a dominant anti-growth sentiment in the 70s, infrastructure projects were deliberately scaled back or not done in the hopes that people wouldn't come en masse. All those tactics did was delay the projects like TREX and make Boulder a high-end suburb. But the people did come and will continue to do so. I think people should live wherever they want, that's the American way. And if people want to move to Denver, the more the merrier!
I saw an interview with someone on an economic development board for the Denver metro area who said he's not surprised by the news because for the last 30 years there has been a concentrated effort to diversify the economy here.
Also, here's a summary of the VC money coming into Colorado for '08:
Thanks for the article, denver_hacker. That definitely paints a different picture of the situation than the one I painted. I'm still highly skeptical though. You think that Denver could be on the verge of a new boom period?
This article was also posted on the general US forum. I said over there, I think a lot of people have concerns about our winter, even though, by midwestern or NE standards, it's pretty mild.
Colorado has always been a "destination" type place, probably always will be. And a lot of people just like to dream. In a survey such as this one, much depends on how the questions were asked. I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other.
It is important not to diminish the concept of marketing an area. Perceptions, real or imagine, have much to do with companies willing to relocate businesses or headquarters to an area. In the past, many decisions were based on availability of natural resources and that is where the businesses would have to move. Today, when the perceived advantages are not so clear, marketing to influence perceptions are important.
Many businesses today are located where the upper management want to live and also where they can attract the highly educated to run the businesses. If the area has a bad reputation or perception of weather, crime or lack of natural pursuits then it does not attract these types of creative people. Creative talented people, who makes businesses and create enterprises, want to be around other intelligent people. Also they want to be where the amenities of cultures, that is museums, symphonies, high level restaurants and shopping exist. And these amenities can also not exist unless their is a consumer for their products.
I came from Buffalo in New York. Part of the problem of the Western New York Region is the bad perceptions of crime and decay, either real or imagined. What happens is other great amenities of the area are overlooked; people do not move there; businesses and culture does not thrive; less creative people find it attractive. The mass common perception of Buffalo causes people to emphasize the negatives of weather but in reality, it is not that bad because other cities thrive with just as bad climate.
The Denver area needs as much publicity as it could get because it continually competes with other great areas for locations of wealth generating businesses. Yes, there are drawbacks; it can be too much and too fast; it will attract people who want opportunity but do not have the skills, education or desire to achieve. Also it can, like California, which was, and is an extremely desirous place live, become overwhelmed by the population demands. And yes, many people moving to Colorado will strain the fragile environment and create challenges for the future.
Location: Governor's Park/Capitol Hill, Denver, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
This article was also posted on the general US forum. I said over there, I think a lot of people have concerns about our winter, even though, by midwestern or NE standards, it's pretty mild.
Colorado has always been a "destination" type place, probably always will be. And a lot of people just like to dream. In a survey such as this one, much depends on how the questions were asked. I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other.
Be careful about brining up weather issues, remember BeetleJuice!
Thanks for the article, denver_hacker. That definitely paints a different picture of the situation than the one I painted. I'm still highly skeptical though. You think that Denver could be on the verge of a new boom period?
No, I don't think that's the case.
I think we're going to be in for a rough time, but it will be better than the most of the country. For example, CO unemployment is over 6% now and the CO state budget is in trouble; we'll be seeing cuts all over the place.
However, the CA state government is in massive debt, CA will have over 10% unemployment soon, and the CA housing values will decrease more as the high-end areas finally succumb to the market:
Someone on one of the threads here said that there was a big influx of folks from California in the early 90s because CA was in the toilet and CO was doing better. I think given the jobs, housing, and school situation in CA now, that's likely to come true again. If you look at the activity on this board versus the CA boards, there are a lot more people looking to move here than there now (contrived anecdotal evidence, but this is just an internet forum.
My previous post was talking about how there is good a entrepreneurial spirit here and how the local and state CO governments have been doing all they can to make CO a diversified and strong economy. It's not just a cool place with a nice vibe and skiing that attract people here, there's a strong economy...but it definitely is a family friendly "lifestyle" state, people here don't want to work 60 hours a week and they know they're not going to make billions.
Denver is my #1 on my top 5 places to retire list. It's as simple as this- I can leave my car at home, hop on my bike outside my house (if I retired there) and travel the paved trails and sidewalks just about anywhere around town. On another day I can drop my kayak in any number of lakes. The winter high temperatures tend to be high enough so that if it's sunny, it will feel good outside. The winter overnight lows I will be able to avoid because I won't have to go to work in the morning- just stay inside until the temp gets up above freezing. There are plenty of scenic parks to take a blanket and a book to, and plenty of open air shopping/town centers if I want a change of pace from one day to the next. And then there's Red Rocks and the proximity to Garden of the Gods. Then there's professional sports. And the 16th street pedestrian mall. And The Market at Larimer. And ethinc restaurants galore. And the 2nd largest performing arts complex in the nation. And neighborhood parks. And homes with beautiful facades. Frankly, I'm surprised Denver hasn't gotten a lot more retirees already like Las Vegas and Phoenix have. If I were retiring right now, I'd be making preparations to move to Denver.
Denver is my #1 on my top 5 places to retire list. It's as simple as this- I can leave my car at home, hop on my bike outside my house (if I retired there) and travel the paved trails and sidewalks just about anywhere around town. On another day I can drop my kayak in any number of lakes. The winter high temperatures tend to be high enough so that if it's sunny, it will feel good outside. The winter overnight lows I will be able to avoid because I won't have to go to work in the morning- just stay inside until the temp gets up above freezing. There are plenty of scenic parks to take a blanket and a book to, and plenty of open air shopping/town centers if I want a change of pace from one day to the next. And then there's Red Rocks and the proximity to Garden of the Gods. Then there's professional sports. And the 16th street pedestrian mall. And The Market at Larimer. And ethinc restaurants galore. And the 2nd largest performing arts complex in the nation. And neighborhood parks. And homes with beautiful facades. Frankly, I'm surprised Denver hasn't gotten a lot more retirees already like Las Vegas and Phoenix have. If I were retiring right now, I'd be making preparations to move to Denver.
Sounds like you have a good plan. I am retired in Denver, been here over 30 years. Moved from Texas and I am originally from New York, grew up near Buffalo. All my family moved here and my parents moved here when they retired. They are now in there eighties.
Everything you say is spot on. Today it was chilly in the morning but it got sunny and warm in the afternoon, as usual. That is the time I go out of the house--I stay up late and get up late--I do not follow that Ben Franklin stuff, "earlier to bed and earlier to rise..." I did enough of that when I was working, no more alarm clocks for me.
It is interesting in the summer. In the late afternoon, we get showers and it cools of the day. Also, the nights are much cooler here. Consequently, I do not use air conditioning.
The parks are very extensive, as you said, with outstanding biking and hiking trails within the cities and the suburbs. Going the mountains is not all that necessary to get away and enjoy the outdoors.
The public transportation is extensive and you can easily live in Denver and most areas of the suburbs without a car. I rarely drive and use the buses and trains often. I have always used them, even when I worked. However, when you are retired, with no fixed schedule and in no hurry, it works out to a very relaxing lifestyle.
The people are fantastic and I welcome all kinds of people. Today, we are seeing more immigrants from Europe and Asia than ever before. It reminds me of many years ago in New York City. They bring that ethnic charm and with the extensive Hispanic culture---living and eating is good.
My old parents and my extended family are very happy living here---it is a great place to retire but let us not tell anybody.
Livecontent
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