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Old 01-11-2008, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,385,204 times
Reputation: 971

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
....do not walk, but RUN to the nearest exit.

My sis knew a doctor in CO Spgs whose new home was CONDEMNED after 1 year due to expansive soils. Don't mess with it.

MickTooth said: "some outdoor stores at the nearby Flatirons Mall are closing because of it." That counts as a major debacle...when commercial buildings shut down due to these issues. Lawsuits are SURE to follow.

If you buy a brand new home and are having it built to your order as you wait for it, be sure to address the drainage issues carefully with the builder and the landscaper. Hire the landscaper EARLY. Every new home is supposed to have a soils report, and if the soils are bad, the builder can take preventative measures, which will cost you more, but is your only assurance that you may escape the problems with expansive soils. You must make sure, else after it's built, YOU own it, lock stock and problems. A solution for the drainage from downspouts and concrete pads is critical. Equally important is the issue of neighboring lots and how do they slope...i.e., do they slope downhill to YOUR house, if so, you will own their water too. Watch out.

If it's an existing home, and a realtor shows you clunkers with soil issues, fire them and hire a good one.

s/Mike from back east

PS: For more info, use the Search the Forum tool with keywords such as: bentonite or soil or expansive
agree very much with this. BTW, loisville only saw a handfull of buildings (residential) go through its permit process last year.

Expansive soils are absolutly not worth building on, although some still insist on it.
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,385,204 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
kryptos .... the warnings above from knowledgeable people about the problems with "expansive" soils are well taken. Run from any house with these damage issues.

Even an engineer's report is at best a guess about possible damage and mitigation in view of the current problems; it cannot accurately forecast the possible severity of problems should a period of time with much more moisture than the house has been exposed to up until now.

Bentonite clay soil is something that people from out of the region or from areas where the water table is high all the time ... and the soil doesn't dry out, shrink, and then expand again when wet ... don't understand. This includes architects, engineers, realtors, builders, and many others who simply don't encounter this type of problem.

No matter how well intentioned, some posters may have no clue or reference to the fundamental STRUCTURAL problem that this house is experiencing due to the local soils/moisture issues. It's not a cosmetic issue.

You would be well advised to not pursue this house at any price, or any other in the area that shows any signs whatsoever of expansive soil damage.

The only way to properly address the bentonite soil issue is to properly install a site drainage system that keeps water away from the soil around the foundation and isolates the foundation from the native soil. This may include a larger excavation for the foundation, installing drains/sump pumps outside the foundation, backfilling with stable fill (rock and sandy soil), and pouring free floating interior slabs with appropriate moisture barriers. Landscaping and site drainage/slope must be carefully planned to avoid pooling water or sub-surface stream flow by the foundation.

Please note that a site considerations extend to the adacent properties. If your neighbor's property drains down to yours, that may be enough moisture flow to create problems on your site. Some suddivisions were platted and graded to minimize downslope site moisture issues, but the result was to create a lot of unusuable space in the backyards. First homeowners were (maybe) cautioned not to re-grade the sites, but it's not unusual for later homeowners to re-landscape the lots to make their backyard more "user friendly". That's fine until a season of heavy rainstorms hits and possibly floods the soils of the houses downstream with moisture and foundation damage. You must have local specific plat knowledge or obtain (which may be difficult) the original site plats to determine if they've been altered. In some cases, there are homeowner's covenents not to re-grade sites and you may have to pursue a neighbor to restore their original site grading to protect your property (at risk of damage to their landscaping, etc, they may not be very cooperative about this expensive responsibility). After the fact water caused soil damage to your house will be expensive for you to fix, so you've got to be pro-active about this.

While it is possible in a subdivision to have some homes with the problems and some without, overall, the entire subdivision value will be much lower because the problem is "in the area".
again, very good advise.
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,385,204 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbuffalos View Post
OK, so I have a structural engineering type question. I understand the impact of clay soils on concrete foundations. Given a choice, is one of these better than the other: a slab foundation, where the clay has been removed, and a more normal soil filled in prior to pouring the slab;
or a perimeter foundation, with wood subfloor in the basement? If the builder cost is equivalent, which is the better choice in the long run?

flyingbuffalos
I tend to shy away from the wood floors in the basement for the moisture that can potentially collect on the wood members causing mold. I would follow specifically what the soils tests are recommending. Some will recommend a slab-on-grade when the soils are returning good, structural slab when they come back questionable. footers if the soils are good, or drilled caissons / helical piers if they come back questionable.

The soils report are a very very good thing to have a copy of. The foundation is going to be designed based on the recommendations in this report.

We did have a client a long time ago, the soils report said that the lot was not suitable for building. They decided to build on it anyway. Scared me when I saw the engineer call out 24" diameter caissons, when they typically are only 10". I am not sure how the house is doing now, but I bet there is problems.

We did make them sign any rights to ensue litigation against us or the engineer since they insisted on building on the lot. We highly recommended to follow the soils report, but they would not have it lol
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:05 PM
 
5 posts, read 26,089 times
Reputation: 12
Default Basement shifting / Foundations / Soils etc

I am watching this thread with great interest and am VERY glad for both the OP and those who have contributed. We are looking to move to the Denver area in May or June 2008 and are looking to buy "experienced residential" (i.e. established construction). My husband does not want a finished basement because he wants access to all the mechanicals and to photograph the placement if we should decide to finish the space. Now I can see that a finished basement could hide many ills.

My question: are the original soil reports available somewhere? If we come upon an established house that we just love, can we find out though the city if the soil testing was done at the time of construction?

Thanks again for such an enlightening discussion.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
87 posts, read 328,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
Since the late 1980's every lot has a soil test, and the foundation is engineered for that particular lot. I haven't seen any house with structural damage when built after 1995 - unless there is an underlying water problem. There are problems when you; over water, plant near the foundation, keep the drain spouts tipped up, allow snow to melt in the garage, or use a hose to clean the garage often, allow the sewer line to crack, have an underground stream....

Most houses show some signs of distress the summer after the lawn was installed. Definitely within 3-5 years. If it hasn't moved in ten year, the chances are high it won't.

If there is a crack in the control joint or a foundation wall that you can stick the head of a nickel in - there could be trouble, and you should have a professional look at it.

I know enough about structural damage, to know when to call in the big boys.

YES YES YES, check your soils report!!! You are much better off with newer construction because off the mandated soils test and the foundations that were engineered for that lot.

BEWARE: However, make sure that your soils report is LOT SPECIFIC! In Murphy Creek there were only 3 or so test holes dug for the soils reports for the entire development. They are having major issues right now with cracking foundations.

Have you considered brand new construction?
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:54 PM
 
Location: CO
2,885 posts, read 7,103,202 times
Reputation: 3987
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasos1 View Post
I am watching this thread with great interest and am VERY glad for both the OP and those who have contributed. We are looking to move to the Denver area in May or June 2008 and are looking to buy "experienced residential" (i.e. established construction). My husband does not want a finished basement because he wants access to all the mechanicals and to photograph the placement if we should decide to finish the space. Now I can see that a finished basement could hide many ills.

My question: are the original soil reports available somewhere? If we come upon an established house that we just love, can we find out though the city if the soil testing was done at the time of construction?

Thanks again for such an enlightening discussion.
This thread //www.city-data.com/forum/denve...ive-soils.html may also interest you.
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Old 03-17-2008, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,385,204 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasos1 View Post
I am watching this thread with great interest and am VERY glad for both the OP and those who have contributed. We are looking to move to the Denver area in May or June 2008 and are looking to buy "experienced residential" (i.e. established construction). My husband does not want a finished basement because he wants access to all the mechanicals and to photograph the placement if we should decide to finish the space. Now I can see that a finished basement could hide many ills.

My question: are the original soil reports available somewhere? If we come upon an established house that we just love, can we find out though the city if the soil testing was done at the time of construction?

Thanks again for such an enlightening discussion.
you sould be able to call the city planning department and see if they have one on file. There are some countys in Colorado that do not require one for submital at the time for permits, although any sane structural engineer will have one on hand for the paticular lot.
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Old 03-17-2008, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,385,204 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9One5 View Post
YES YES YES, check your soils report!!! You are much better off with newer construction because off the mandated soils test and the foundations that were engineered for that lot.

BEWARE: However, make sure that your soils report is LOT SPECIFIC! In Murphy Creek there were only 3 or so test holes dug for the soils reports for the entire development. They are having major issues right now with cracking foundations.

Have you considered brand new construction?
Excellent advice, soils in Colorado change conditions SO much, that a lot by lot test should be done, you might have Great soils on one lot, and two lots away have extremely expansive soils.

Another thing you can ask is what type of foundation they are going to use on your particular lot, this should help you awnser a couple of questions as to the soils conditions. Still get a soils test, their engineer will have one for doing his load calculations.

Generally there are three types of foundations found here.

Strip footings, or spread footings - which are used in good soils conditions. These spread out the load from the wall into the soil directly below the footing. you will typically have a slab-on-grade slab in the basement)

Poured Concrete Caisson - these are generally 10" diameter holes (bigger with worse soils conditions) they are drilled to a depth to where the side pressures hold the concrete caisson in place, and keep it from sinking. You will find structural concrete slabs (lots of reinforcing) used with this and the next type of foundation in basements.

Helical Piers - these are steel piers that are literally drilled into the earth at set positions, they can hold a higher load on top of them without having to go as deep as the poured caissons. These are used in place of caissons when it is required. they are usually interchangeable with caissons unless the penetration depth for the caisson is too great.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Westminster, CO
123 posts, read 179,273 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
....do not walk, but RUN to the nearest exit.

...

If it's an existing home, and a realtor shows you clunkers with soil issues, fire them and hire a good one.

s/Mike from back east

PS: For more info, use the Search the Forum tool with keywords such as: bentonite or soil or expansive
So, is the expansive soils a common problem in Denver? Which are the neighborhoods that are known to have this problem?
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,385,204 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by shark6286 View Post
So, is the expansive soils a common problem in Denver? Which are the neighborhoods that are known to have this problem?
It is a common soils type in Colorado. A good engineer will take the soils engineers advice in regards to the type of foundation and design accordingly. There has only been once in my career where a soils engineer recommended NOT to build on a lot. Concrete Caisson and structural slabs are a way that is used to combat expansive soils along with an item called a void form, which allows the soil to move around a bit under the foundation without disturbing it.
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