please, challenge my memories of soullessness.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by Sockeye

I'm fortunate to have grown up nearby, and all of my family and relatives live within 300 miles of each other. Most of my friends are also natives. It doesn't matter what city you're talking about. When you leave the communal warmth of where your family and friends are from, its a very lonely transition. My advice would be to seek out a newcomers club. There are many of them around.

I'd say that all depends on your family!

[MobyLL]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I think the first thing that "makes a place" is its history. It doesn't have to be ancient history, however. For a place to have a soul, or a heartbeat, it's got to have a past, and not one that started so recently that the majority of the area's residents remember "the beginning"...


...old architecture does give a sense of place. For example, what could be "more Denver" than a home that's been standing in it for 100+ years? It has lived through every snowstorm, every historical event, and every attempt to raze it, within a lifetime+'s duration. That impresses me.

It is the people that make the place, but what if those people have no connection or historical attachment to it? What good is a historical Denver neighborhood if a majority of the area's residents are from Chicago or California? That to me, is not "Denver", which unfortunately is a drawback to finding a genuinely "Denver" place, because the most historical parts of town are full of transplanted yuppies (no offense to transplanted yuppies, of course).

"Soul" is a subjective term, but I agree with a lot of David Aguilar's points. In my subjective opinion, areas/neighborhoods that have "soul" (vs. "sense of community") in the US are relatively rare -- and in my mind many areas in Denver have a sense of community, yet probably none have "soul". The difference is as David suggests, history, and not just of buildings but also, and very importantly, people.

To illustrate -- We once lived in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn... it has soul. You have a sense of the history and permanance there not just of the buildings but of the residents. It was an old-time Italian neighborhood, so you had the Italian Pork Stores that had been in the same family for generations, you had the restaurants, the butcher shops etc. You also saw "old people"... in the parks talking to each other on the benches or playing Bocce Ball, on the stoops of brownstones, in front of the Italian Social Clubs, walking with their shopping carts to the Korean fruit and vegetable stand, etc.

What also makes Carroll Gardens great is illustrated by the Korean vegetable stand... although it was an historical Italian neighborhood, there was acceptance of new people, young people, people of different ethnicities. So it was not insular as some of the older types of neighborhoods can be.

A "sense of community" is much easier to find (not that all places have even that). Denver has a sense of community in my neighborhood, Platt Park. I'm sure it has it in many other Denver neighborhoods as well as suburbs including New Urbanist areas like Bradburn or Stapleton, as well as traditional suburbs like Highlands Ranch. A sense of community can develop without history... people sharing common interests, ideals, traits, etc. can develop a sense of community. It happens all the time in new suburbs where people with children cluster around "good schools" and because of their commonalities in raising children, age range and socioeconomic class there can be an instant sense of community.

I think in the older neighborhoods of Denver you do have some older people who remained there, but I don't think it has the critical mass needed to counter-balance the newcomers... to give it a sense of people or family history as well as architectual history. There are older people in Platt Park, but you don't see them much. The park is filled with kids and young families or maybe people in their 40's or 50' walking their dog. I don't get the sense that many of the stores, restaurants, etc. have been handed down from one generation to the next, etc. When you do see older people in Platt Park they are usually out walking alone or sitting on their porch or eating in a restaurant with their (grown) children. Sadly, I have the feeling that there is a stronger "sense of community" among younger people in Platt Park have lived here a few years than the older people that may have spent their whole lives here.

As more "urban" or at least "street-car suburb" type living becomes more popular once again, Denver may develop some neighborhoods with soul as young people (like DenverAztec) stay and continue to be a part of their community and can give their neigborhood the social and human fabric to go along with the great architectual history. But, right now I would have to say that there are plenty of places in Denver with a sense of community... unfortunately, I really don't think I would characterize any neighborhood here as having "soul". Having said that, we enjoy Platt Park a great deal... easily my second favorite neighborhood (after Carroll Gardens) I have ever lived -- and I have lived in many places including San Francisco, Philadelphia and Miami as well as NYC.

[Sockeye]

Curtis Park and Five Points both have soul. At the other end of the spectrum so does the Denver Country Club neighborhood. LOTS of "old money" in there. The same could be said for much of Park Hill, too.
Having no extended family or friends in the new city one moves to, you will most likely develop friendships with transplants in the same predicament. Its human nature.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by denverian

I'd say that all depends on your family!

Good point. I'd say 300 miles in the absolute minimum in terms of closeness to my family. I love them and I enjoy our time together but if my mother or my in-laws could just "drop by", I would honestly shoot myself. My sisters-in-law (4 of them) all live in the same neighborhood as their parents. When we come over, one of them will drop by my in-law's house because they saw our car drive down the road. Kill me...kill me now.