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Actually preventative security measures go a long way in preventing many attacks (not all of course). The defined enemy is one that utilizes archic means which is just the method that can be prevented by a simple bag check etc.
If you don't understand the effectiveness of having a fence or even the presence of a security force at a public event then you don't know much about public safety in general. You nor I may not like the presence of a security officer or DHS agent but they have a job to do that requires leaving no person or place unchecked.
If we can prevent a terrorist attack to occur from every 3-4 years to 10-15 then we doing something right. Of course the intelligence community knows that it is only a matter of time before another attack will occur. Hopefully, implemented security measures can reduce the time frame of how often this occurs as well as the impact.
What scares me? A collapsed democracy due to a government that cannot protect its citizens from terrorist attacks. Terrorism has been a very effective weapon at regime change historically and the current intent is to do just that. I also fear seeing 45K plus folks at a ball game dying from one of the many gases or biological agents that can be employed.
But no the people shouldn’t be scared as the bush administration attempted with their anti-terror slogans. Folks should be aware of a terrorist attack as much as they should be aware of a national disaster. But to discount the former because of an administration's poor use of public relations is irresponsible.
I do not agree with the characterization of your last paragraph in regards to DHS procedure.
I really hoe you're right about that last part because I keep looking out my window to see if sirens are approaching right noiw.
Did you see me state that I wanted no security measures in place at the stadium or elsewhere? I expect my bag to be checked for weapons and such and I really don't mind letting them go through it for that. I also understand and agree with the 'no glass containers' policy as I really dontl want someone hucking at me when their team loses.
BUT, here's is a list of PERMITTED items:
* Plastic beverage containers
* Soft-sided bags or containers 16"x 16"x 8" or smaller
* Insulated cups or thermoses 22 ounces or smaller
* Food items
* Any fruit or vegetable, grapefruit sized or smaller
* Still and video cameras (see "Cameras")
* Binoculars
* Seat cushions and bleacher back rests
* Umbrellas (During the threat of inclement weather, umbrellas are allowed at Coors Field. In consideration of the safety and sight lines of others, please use only small, compact umbrellas (28" - 34"). Large golf umbrellas and umbrellas with metal tips are strongly discouraged.)
* Paper or plastic cups with permitted beverages
* Plastic baby bottles
* Baseball bats -- for the purpose of autographs; must be stored underneath the seats once the game begins
* Brooms - 6' maximum length
* Potato chip or nut cardboard cans with metal tops or bottoms
* Strollers -- umbrella-type that folds or collapses to fit underneath seats (larger strollers may be claim-checked at the gates upon entry)
* Motorcycle and bicycle helmets
See any dangerous items in that list? Why allow baseball bats, umbrellas and brooms but not a plastic bottle full of a Mai Tai? Hmm, I wonder...
I really do have a great deal of respect for those just trying to do their job and, trust me, I did not say a hostile word to the lady as she made be open my Kleen Kanteen for a sniff. But what really bothers me is how they piggy-back these other contraband items on there in the name of 'security' when they're really just trying to up their sales. And then they get the public's full support because, hey, who deosn't want to be 'safer'?
However, it sounds like I'm in the small minority here, so maybe I should just let it lie. Too bad, so sad...
All I can say is I lived here prior to 2001 and yep, they searched like that then too. It's to stop us from bringing affordable booze in so we are forced to pay their outrageous prices. That and the dangerous liquid theory. Although if that's what they are looking for, someone ought to tell them to not sniff the containers.
That and the dangerous liquid theory. Although if that's what they are looking for, someone ought to tell them to not sniff the containers.
HAHA - great point!!!
If she's unable to identify anything dangerous, then what's the point of the sniff?... (for the answer, refer to the wantto's first point above)
At any rate, maybe I can turn this into something constructive and let people know, if you're planning to go to Coors Field any time soon, they will:
a) Search your ENTIRE bag with a flashlight and a stick.
b) Confiscate (among other things):
* Alcoholic beverages (in ANY sort of container)
* Non-alcoholic beer
* Pizza boxes larger than personal size
Do you look like a middle eastern guy? If yes, then you'd be searched and examined everywhere.
This is a permanent happening in all my travel/fun activities, all across the globe.
This happened in Hamburg, Germany. During one of my trips, I was being totally harassed by the security mob, think Gestapo here. This was the most maximum, to date.
In the process of them doing it, I imitated like I was pulling out a gun (the one you do with last 2 fingers folded inside) and pointed it at the female in the mob and made a triggering sound. She was "cute"
I spent 2 to 3 hours in a waiting room, when everyone possible was called, my employers included and I was cleared to go free.
I really hoe you're right about that last part because I keep looking out my window to see if sirens are approaching right noiw.
Did you see me state that I wanted no security measures in place at the stadium or elsewhere? I expect my bag to be checked for weapons and such and I really don't mind letting them go through it for that. I also understand and agree with the 'no glass containers' policy as I really dontl want someone hucking at me when their team loses.
BUT, here's is a list of PERMITTED items:
* Plastic beverage containers
* Soft-sided bags or containers 16"x 16"x 8" or smaller
* Insulated cups or thermoses 22 ounces or smaller
* Food items
* Any fruit or vegetable, grapefruit sized or smaller
* Still and video cameras (see "Cameras")
* Binoculars
* Seat cushions and bleacher back rests
* Umbrellas (During the threat of inclement weather, umbrellas are allowed at Coors Field. In consideration of the safety and sight lines of others, please use only small, compact umbrellas (28" - 34"). Large golf umbrellas and umbrellas with metal tips are strongly discouraged.)
* Paper or plastic cups with permitted beverages
* Plastic baby bottles
* Baseball bats -- for the purpose of autographs; must be stored underneath the seats once the game begins
* Brooms - 6' maximum length
* Potato chip or nut cardboard cans with metal tops or bottoms
* Strollers -- umbrella-type that folds or collapses to fit underneath seats (larger strollers may be claim-checked at the gates upon entry)
* Motorcycle and bicycle helmets
See any dangerous items in that list? Why allow baseball bats, umbrellas and brooms but not a plastic bottle full of a Mai Tai? Hmm, I wonder...
I really do have a great deal of respect for those just trying to do their job and, trust me, I did not say a hostile word to the lady as she made be open my Kleen Kanteen for a sniff. But what really bothers me is how they piggy-back these other contraband items on there in the name of 'security' when they're really just trying to up their sales. And then they get the public's full support because, hey, who deosn't want to be 'safer'?
However, it sounds like I'm in the small minority here, so maybe I should just let it lie. Too bad, so sad...
The stadium may very well have another agenda besides your safety but this is a whole different issue. I certainly think many private industries security polices are sloppy and suspect.
Some items that you may think are harmless are in fact screened out because they may share a similiar density like tooth paste or right guard with certain plastic explosives.
Also, human observation is the first step for a red flag. Your assumption that a person checking your bag at the ball park must be trained in detecting explosives once again alludes to your misunderstanding of security procedures. The point of smelling i.e. human sensing is to detect things that are out of the ordinary. If your bag smells funny (not like a tuna sandwich or chips etc but pungent) then its a good idea to have your bag further analyzed, which is where a bomb snifing dog or IMS come into play.
Last edited by D-town 720; 05-08-2009 at 01:55 AM..
I just went to my first game at Coors field ever. Just exactly WHEN did it become fashionable to thoroughly root through everyone's personals at any old public event? I've had the bag check at stadiums in the past, but never as thoroughly or as obnoxiously as at Coors field. They made me take every single thing out of my backpack and open my metal thermos to be sniffed.
What? I find that really hard to believe. Are you male or female? I am a female and my boyfriend and I go to at least one Rockies game in every homestand, if not more. He never brings a bag in (why would a guy need to??) but I always have my purse and have to go through the bag check line. Every time, it goes like this: open bag, they visually look and occasionally poke around, but I have NEVER had anything removed from my bag. You do usually need to show your jacket pockets don't have anything "illegal" in them but I don't think that is unreasonable. We always bring in our own peanuts, bottled water, etc. and they are very accommodating.
I think you are trying to stir up something political.
[quote=treedonkey;8701028] See any dangerous items in that list? Why allow baseball bats, umbrellas and brooms but not a plastic bottle full of a Mai Tai? Hmm, I wonder...quote]
Umm...probably because they want to make a huge profit selling 6.50 beers???? If you have real skills you know how to "crotch" your own booze into the game
Last edited by Mike from back east; 05-08-2009 at 10:12 AM..
Umm...probably because they want to make a huge profit selling 6.50 beers???? If you have real skills you know how to "crotch" your own booze into the game
Yes that was my point exactly. I suppose I could work on the art of 'crotching', but if they catch you doing that it might be alarming enough to summon a slough of armed guards....
I'm not trying to stir up something political here, since I've no political interests. I just felt a little violated, and I believe I have a right to feel that way as long as I cooperate with them in the process.
Regardless of whether or not you believe me or not, what I said was true. Oddly enough, they had no interest in what was in my pockets at all, and I was wearing a soft-shell jacket with big pockets all over it. That is exactly why I did not feel that their primary concern was not security so much as beverage sales. I really find it quite scandalous, although I realize there's little I can do, especially since so many people (like D-town) think that anything done in the name of 'safety' is for our good.
I know my concerns seem minor, and compared to experiences like Colossus' they are (no I do not look Middle Eastern, so I can only imagine your pain... you have my empathy)... But I view it all as symptoms of the same problem. Unfortunately, the terrorists are the real culprits here, but that will reality will never leave us in this system. Even more unfortunately, their nefarious acts are only rewarded when the Gov't authorities or forced to oppress and even, at times, 'terrorize' their own people by putting highly restrictive security measures in place.
Somehow, since 9/11, it's become highly taboo to balk at personal invasion in the name of security, and this gives governmental security agencies carte blanche to do with us as they please, which is a lot more scary to me than the possibility of a terrorist attack.
I feel the same way, and I imagine that a significant percentage of the population feels that way too. How sad it is that many citizens hold more fear toward their own govermenent than they do toward the possibility of a terrorist attack.
Cardiff Giant wrote:
In NY they go through your bag, wand and pat you down as well. That's just the way it is now.
Cheney and his cronies got exactly what they wanted!
I certainly think many private industries security polices are sloppy and suspect.
That's all I was saying, really... I wrote the original title in a huff. If I could revise it now, I would probably re-word it to say 'Sloppy and Suspect Security and Coors Field' and I probably wouldn't be seen so much as the troublemaker here.
I've not claimed to have some great understanding of 'security procedures' (as if that's some sort of exact science that can be universally understood), but I can tell the difference between security and harassment.
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