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RTD is in the process of changing the fare boxes to new technology. These new boxes will allow the use of smart cards--so perhaps it will solve some of your problems.
RTD is only responsible and tasked with the building of the line, the rail stations and supporting lots and structures. Any other projects and Transit Oriented Development is the responsibility of the Municipality. Englewood has done a great job in redeveloping their City Center around the station. I think it will take time, considering the financial issues today, but developers are actively looking to develop around the stations. There is a great deal of money to be made and that will provide the incentive.
Livecontent
I don't understand why they didn't install that in the first place. And my problems are with the "stations" themselves. Paying is essentially an "on your honor" occurrence (I wonder how much money they've lost because of this), and there is no controlled environment (I thought I was being followed once but was on my way to a metro station so I wasn't that worried--police presence). But I'm glad to know that cities are trying to actively promote development around stations.
I don't understand why they didn't install that in the first place. And my problems are with the "stations" themselves. Paying is essentially an "on your honor" occurrence (I wonder how much money they've lost because of this), and there is no controlled environment (I thought I was being followed once but was on my way to a metro station so I wasn't that worried--police presence). But I'm glad to know that cities are trying to actively promote development around stations.
The cost for the secured payment system may be more costly than loosing some fares, here and there---as I have been told. I would like to see the day when there is no charge for public transit. We get rid of all the extra staff and bureaucracy in maintaining the system. That would certainly encourage some people to get out of their car.
However, many people will not ride, even if the bus came to their door. I should know because I can ride for free and it is difficult to use public transit when one needs to shop. I think I have an excuse because I have trouble walking when I get where I am going.
I actually used the bus more often when I had more mobility. It is difficult for me to walk to the bus stop so I can pay to be picked up by reservation, or use the route buses and rail for free. Some times it is just too much of a hassle---so I am really a hypocrite--I advocate using public transit but at the same time, I cannot get my fat butt to do what I preach.
The cost for the secured payment system may be more costly than loosing some fares, here and there---as I have been told. I would like to see the day when there is no charge for public transit. We get rid of all the extra staff and bureaucracy in maintaining the system. That would certainly encourage some people to get out of their car.
However, many people will not ride, even if the bus came to their door. I should know because I can ride for free and it is difficult to use public transit when one needs to shop. I think I have an excuse because I have trouble walking when I get where I am going.
I actually used the bus more often when I had more mobility. It is difficult for me to walk to the bus stop so I can pay to be picked up by reservation, or use the route buses and rail for free. Some times it is just too much of a hassle---so I am really a hypocrite--I advocate using public transit but at the same time, I cannot get my fat butt to do what I preach.
livecontent
Hey I'm not a perfect public transportation person either. In fact, I have a no-bus policy. I've just had bad experiences in the past (one not showing up when I needed to go to the airport), they still get stuck in traffic, and you're generally stuck waiting in the rain/cold. So if it's not a train, I'm generally not on it.
Um, not quite a complete assessment of RTD. Many park n rides are covered. Waiting in the rain/cold? Um, not so much as my bus stop is covered and often, during snowy days, they up the buses to pick up more frequently. Stuck in traffic? Sometimes, but hardly my bus as we fly down the HOV. Strange about the airport bus not showing up. I see them all the time and I know a lot of people who love them.
I understand your frustrations though, as it's not a perfect system. Sure beats wearing down my car and paying gas and freaking out in a traffic jam though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legs1357
Hey I'm not a perfect public transportation person either. In fact, I have a no-bus policy. I've just had bad experiences in the past (one not showing up when I needed to go to the airport), they still get stuck in traffic, and you're generally stuck waiting in the rain/cold. So if it's not a train, I'm generally not on it.
Hey I'm not a perfect public transportation person either. In fact, I have a no-bus policy. I've just had bad experiences in the past (one not showing up when I needed to go to the airport), they still get stuck in traffic, and you're generally stuck waiting in the rain/cold. So if it's not a train, I'm generally not on it.
It's funny that you mention this because I never liked buses before I moved to Denver, but I ride the 83L every day and haven't had any problems, nor do I feel unsafe. It's always clean, too, and I mention this after returning from San Diego and riding buses that had litter and food all over the interior.
You're correct though -- not all stops have shelters. I have to transfer at Leetsdale and Quebec in the morning and Leetsdale and Oneida in the afternoon and sometimes it's a bit brutal when it's cold and/or raining. I usually dress accordingly. And yes, sometimes the bus does get stuck in traffic, especially when it snows, but for me, it takes me less time to get to work via the bus if I factor in the time it takes to find parking. And generally, when it snows, ALL traffic is slow, so it might take someone more time to get to a light rail station to catch the train.
With that said, I'm no RTD cheerleader. I won't vote to increase any sales tax, for instance, to fund more RTD endeavors. BUT, I do use it for work and I do like the system overall, and I do think most people don't realize how convenient it can be in some situations, like getting to work especially for people who work downtown.
Last edited by cowboyxjon; 08-03-2009 at 01:20 PM..
I'm going to say once a year. The reality is between that and never. I've taken the Bronco bus, the Rockies bus, etc, but around Louisville I just drive. To take the bus to work (which I couldn't even do until recently) would take me waaaay longer than driving the 4 1/2 miles as it would require a 1/4 mile walk to the stop, then a transfer downtown (I mean downtown Louisville), and then I would have to walk at least 1/4 mile into my building.
I think the OP is being a little hard on RTD and Denver transit. Well, except that Credit Card thing - that does seem annoying. My experience is that a lot of people on the East coast don't like the bus. In Denver it seems quite good and a better experience. To have a personal no-bus policy in Denver just sounds crazy - they are often quicker and more efficient that a light rail would be. Hear me out for a second - what stinks about light rail (or Marta or Metro) is that that you stop at every stop - if you are at a far out stop, that can make the ride take forever. Most US cities' light-rail/subways don't seem to have the ability to do the Local, Semi-Express, Express, Regional (like Japan or parts of Europe). The buses in Denver do (the B route for example). Many of these routes also use HOV/Bus lanes and have easier/different entrance and exit points into the city. Many of the regional and express buses are also more comfortable coach buses. So if that FastTracks rail ever gets built out to Longmont, I'm not sure those people really benefit more than their current regional bus. The ride home from Denver will probably take twice as long as they make every stop and it will probably involve a lot of standing and waiting for a seat. The route will also be fixed to the rail line.
If you look at it, the US 36 Bus Rapid Transit is an interesting concept. There's a good chance it will be bastardized and won't work out to be a true BRT, but it has the capability to be cheaper, quicker, and more efficient that the equivalent rail option.
And the pay "on your honor" - well, that's actually fairly common in parts of the world. I know in Vienna, Austria they do that and they have one of the best public transit systems in the world.
I think the OP is being a little hard on RTD and Denver transit. Well, except that Credit Card thing - that does seem annoying. My experience is that a lot of people on the East coast don't like the bus. In Denver it seems quite good and a better experience. To have a personal no-bus policy in Denver just sounds crazy - they are often quicker and more efficient that a light rail would be. Hear me out for a second - what stinks about light rail (or Marta or Metro) is that that you stop at every stop - if you are at a far out stop, that can make the ride take forever. Most US cities' light-rail/subways don't seem to have the ability to do the Local, Semi-Express, Express, Regional (like Japan or parts of Europe). The buses in Denver do (the B route for example). Many of these routes also use HOV/Bus lanes and have easier/different entrance and exit points into the city. Many of the regional and express buses are also more comfortable coach buses. So if that FastTracks rail ever gets built out to Longmont, I'm not sure those people really benefit more than their current regional bus. The ride home from Denver will probably take twice as long as they make every stop and it will probably involve a lot of standing and waiting for a seat. The route will also be fixed to the rail line.
If you look at it, the US 36 Bus Rapid Transit is an interesting concept. There's a good chance it will be bastardized and won't work out to be a true BRT, but it has the capability to be cheaper, quicker, and more efficient that the equivalent rail option.
And the pay "on your honor" - well, that's actually fairly common in parts of the world. I know in Vienna, Austria they do that and they have one of the best public transit systems in the world.
I definitely do see a lot of the points you've made. And btw, I'm not east coast...Denver born and raised.
I've never been on a regional bus in Denver and a lot of the buses I've taken in the past have been in places that don't have HOV/bus lanes. And just the bad experiences I've had have made me kinda hesitant to try again, ya know? One last point: if you're choosing where you live based on where you work/go to school/whatever and how you'll get there...being dependent on a rail line is much more stable long-term than a bus line. Bus lines get canceled and changed around...just a thought.
Again, not sure about this. It depends. I moved from downtown, where I rode buses all the time, to Thornton, where I ride twice a day to commute. I've always been able to work out a bus schedule. But I know someone who lives really far out in Brighton and she just does a better job driving.
I do like the idea of living near the rail, although there have been plenty of times the rail has been cancelled or delayed, whereas buses are always going. Only one day in 20 some years have I seen the buses cancelled and that was that huge blizzard a few years ago. So I guess the ultimate would be to have both the rail and bus nearby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legs1357
I definitely do see a lot of the points you've made. And btw, I'm not east coast...Denver born and raised.
I've never been on a regional bus in Denver and a lot of the buses I've taken in the past have been in places that don't have HOV/bus lanes. And just the bad experiences I've had have made me kinda hesitant to try again, ya know? One last point: if you're choosing where you live based on where you work/go to school/whatever and how you'll get there...being dependent on a rail line is much more stable long-term than a bus line. Bus lines get canceled and changed around...just a thought.
Again, not sure about this. It depends. I moved from downtown, where I rode buses all the time, to Thornton, where I ride twice a day to commute. I've always been able to work out a bus schedule. But I know someone who lives really far out in Brighton and she just does a better job driving.
I do like the idea of living near the rail, although there have been plenty of times the rail has been cancelled or delayed, whereas buses are always going. Only one day in 20 some years have I seen the buses cancelled and that was that huge blizzard a few years ago. So I guess the ultimate would be to have both the rail and bus nearby.
That's where RTD has dropped the ball. Because they have no "rail status" area on their website, you're right, there's no way to know if a line is delayed. Every single morning when I get up I check the status of the metro and if I need to leave earlier I do. I feel like the inability to do that with RTD may hinder people from taking it to work when they'd either a) risk being late all the time or b) have to leave excessively early every single day just in case it's that one day in like 20 when it's delay.
(And if you live downtown-ish of course there will always be a zillion bus lines to choose from but not necessrily so if you can't afford to live there)
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