Denver vs. Phoenix? (Boulder: buy, college, gated)

[cameron_miller94]

Yep buddy I posted both as to get a reply from both. Moderator cut: keep it civil are you from Denver? Hmmmmmmmmmm - YES!!!

[NickMan7]

What kind of work do you do? Have you researched whether or not Phoenix pays more for the same kind of work? The cost of living in Phoenix isn't much different than Denver. I will guarantee you if the [relative] cold in Denver bothers you, the searing heat in Phoenix won't make you any happier.

[WestCoDude]

I don't think Denver sucks nearly as bad as you think it does. It does have a bad job market, salaries are much too low for the cost of living, and it isn't the most glamorous city in the country. But it's not THAT bad, either.

I did get out....but I sure as heck didn't move to Arizona! I mean....why would you do that? lol. I actually moved to the midwest and am very happy I did so. Denver's a great place for a certain group of people and I can see why a lot of people just would't want to live there. It's definitely not paradise.

But it's an all-around alright town and has a lot of good things going for it.

[vegaspilgrim]

Take a look at this same question going on the Phoenix forum right now. It's up to 6 whole pages now! I sense a lot of hostility on that forum towards Denver for some reason.

[tfox]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Take a look at this same question going on the Phoenix forum right now. It's up to 6 whole pages now! I sense a lot of hostility on that forum towards Denver for some reason.

There's a lot of hostility on the Phoenix forum in general, actually. You're actually one of the more helpful posters on that forum, VP. The signal to noise ratio on this forum (Denver) is so much better than that of the Phoenix forum.

[vegaspilgrim]

Let me get the locals take on this one... which city has the better economy and business climate-- Denver, or Phoenix? And if I were to throw in a third city, San Diego (I'm considering moving there in the future), how would you rank the three in terms of the economy? (BTW, my goal is to become a CPA and work for a major public accounting firm).

[steveco.]

Im guessing that a large part of the phoenix job market is based on residential construction since the town has been the fastest growing metro since the 90's and given the current state of that market I would gave to say that its probably a bit slow right now. I see them as a large regional player for many big firms also in the southwest area. I would have to say that their economy mirrors our own here in Denver. Residential construction has slowed considerably however it is offset by the high demand of commercial construction etc. the Denver Regional Council of Governments might give you a better idea of the economy here though. Hope this helps.

[tfox]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Let me get the locals take on this one... which city has the better economy and business climate-- Denver, or Phoenix? And if I were to throw in a third city, San Diego (I'm considering moving there in the future), how would you rank the three in terms of the economy? (BTW, my goal is to become a CPA and work for a major public accounting firm).

Denver's economy at the moment is better than most due to the energy industry on a major upswing, mineral commodities at record highs, telecomm re-awaking from a long slumber, technology still holding its own, and government/defense still spinning along, and our fledgling media industry growing through consolidation. These are our major industries, so it's allowing Denver to buck the trend at the moment. Unfortunately for Denver, all of our major industries tend to be highly cyclical, which is why Denver is vulnerable to busts when two or three of our major industries go down all at the same time.

Phoenix and San Diego have quite frankly never been known as big centers of business, though both have their share. Both are going through a rough time of late, as is much of the country (we are in a recession, most likely).

San Diego has been able to attract a fair number of technology companies due to its climate and reputation as a favorable place to live, but it's by no means a real technology center like Silicon Valley, Southern Cal, Seattle, or Boston. It has a fair number of defense/military/government sector employment, complemented by its port and shipbuilding industries. Recently it has grown its biotech sector considerably. Proximity to Los Angeles is a blessing and a curse, but certainly LA's powerful economic engine has some secondary benefits for San Diego's economy as well. However, from what I've read, the housing bust has hit San Diego particularly hard, slowing growth, while tourism has also slowed due to the recession.

Phoenix' economy was actually pretty much just agriculture and (winter) tourism until just 3-4 decades ago. Recently, Phoenix has also attracted investment from technology companies (who can relocate pretty much anywhere), also due to climate and generally being thought a nice place to live. Despite that, it's still has been built up lately primarily in the tourism and construction industries. The latter is somewhat fickle. However, despite the current downturn, Phoenix ultimately has the water to propel construction forward for a long time to come, when things get better. Personally, having worked in Phoenix before (briefly), I'd say its economy is pretty underdeveloped and lacking diversity for being one of America's largest cities (#4 in the country, I believe -- a whopping three times the size of Denver).

So there you have it. Denver's economy is actually relatively strong right now (especially with the country in recession), but that could change to due to its cyclical nature. San Diego and Phoenix are being kicked in the teeth right now due to the bust, but they'll both be back in a couple years, though of the two I think San Diego is a far more mature economy than Phoenix.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by tfox

Denver's economy at the moment is better than most due to the energy industry on a major upswing, mineral commodities at record highs, telecomm re-awaking from a long slumber, technology still holding its own, and government/defense still spinning along, and our fledgling media industry growing through consolidation. These are our major industries, so it's allowing Denver to buck the trend at the moment. Unfortunately for Denver, all of our major industries tend to be highly cyclical, which is why Denver is vulnerable to busts when two or three of our major industries go down all at the same time.

Phoenix and San Diego have quite frankly never been known as big centers of business, though both have their share. Both are going through a rough time of late, as is much of the country (we are in a recession, most likely).

San Diego has been able to attract a fair number of technology companies due to its climate and reputation as a favorable place to live, but it's by no means a real technology center like Silicon Valley, Southern Cal, Seattle, or Boston. It has a fair number of defense/military/government sector employment, complemented by its port and shipbuilding industries. Recently it has grown its biotech sector considerably. Proximity to Los Angeles is a blessing and a curse, but certainly LA's powerful economic engine has some secondary benefits for San Diego's economy as well. However, from what I've read, the housing bust has hit San Diego particularly hard, slowing growth, while tourism has also slowed due to the recession.

Phoenix' economy was actually pretty much just agriculture and (winter) tourism until just 3-4 decades ago. Recently, Phoenix has also attracted investment from technology companies (who can relocate pretty much anywhere), also due to climate and generally being thought a nice place to live. Despite that, it's still has been built up lately primarily in the tourism and construction industries. The latter is somewhat fickle. However, despite the current downturn, Phoenix ultimately has the water to propel construction forward for a long time to come, when things get better. Personally, having worked in Phoenix before (briefly), I'd say its economy is pretty underdeveloped and lacking diversity for being one of America's largest cities (#4 in the country, I believe -- a whopping three times the size of Denver).

So there you have it. Denver's economy is actually relatively strong right now (especially with the country in recession), but that could change to due to its cyclical nature. San Diego and Phoenix are being kicked in the teeth right now due to the bust, but they'll both be back in a couple years, though of the two I think San Diego is a far more mature economy than Phoenix.

Thanks for your insight, tfox. Drats-- it looks like I can't give you any more rep points for the time being. Yeah, the city of Phoenix might be over 3 times bigger than the city of Denver, but it's really the size of the metropolitan area that counts. When you look at the entire greater metro area, Denver CSA (which includes Boulder and Greeley) is about 2.9 million. Metro Phoenix (which is basically Maricopa County, and now Pinal County is also included) is now just over 4.0 million. So however you slice it, Phoenix has an extra million people. The entire southwest right now is suffering from the housing slump. The housing market in Las Vegas, in particular, has practically crashed. I agree with your analysis-- I've thought for some time now that Phoenix is a severely underpowered city. Denver I think is about right in line, and maybe even a bit impressive for the size of the city. If Phoenix had the same amount of job centers, cultural amenities, and level of urbanization that it has today, but with only 1.5-2.0 million people (about the size of Salt Lake City), it would be right in line with its size. Unfortunately, the suburban sprawl goes on endlessly in all directions. There is actually quite a bit amount of "stuff" in Phoenix; it's just that it's spread thin over a HUGE area; there really isn't any one part of town that serves as THE center of business, entertainment, or culture.

Imagine how big Denver metro is today, but if downtown had not changed a bit since where it was 20 years ago, the Denver Tech center did not exist, and the sprawl was wall to wall from the mountains all the way beyond DIA to Strasburg and Byers (each outdoing themelves with annexation, trying to become the next Aurora), with a new freeway (E-670?) going down from Bennett to Kiowa with suburban developments happening on every exit of that freeway, with new master planned communities opening up in Limon (Sun City Anthem at Prairie Grass?); that's what Phoenix is like today.

[steveco.]

Yes I would have to say that one of the main reasons for this is the ease of which the cities of phoenix have been able to annex large swaths of undeveloped land and smaller cities, each being eaten up by the phoenix civic boundry one at a time. Most of this development was not designed to develop in a community sense, but rather is a culmination of Builder after mega builder throwing up as many 1 acre lot ranches as possible in as short amount of time. City planning in that area has to be a mess where things are thrown together so fast that no real thought goes into how the community will look or how people will live there in 30 or 50 years. Its a shame also in the sense that literally thousands of acres of land have been developed in this way and it really is at other people (and places) expense. Here in Denver back a few years ago we were dealing with one of the worst draughts/ fire seasons in history and could barely water the flowers in our yard, while the people of Phoenix enjoyed their luxuriously manicured lawns that glistened in the 120 degree summer sun all the while pushing water supplies to their limit.... I guess that what I am trying to say is that give Phoenix 20 or 30 years and see if people are still moving there in droves... or just saying it is one big suburban ghetto...