Is it just me, or has been Des Moines been going downhill? (Ames: living in, moving)

[smpliving]

Originally Posted by nrogers1122

I really think that Des Moines has a lot of potential. If the government bothered to reduce property/income taxes, DSM could attract a lot of business. Another problem is that Des Moines needs an identity. It seems like when I mention that I'm from the Des Moines area, others who haven't been there either 1) ask where that is; 2) ask if I grew up on a farm; or 3) ask what there is to do there. This is a shame because there is a great local music scene and great food.

The key here is population growth. As more people come to Des Moines, the food/music scene will only continue to expand, and the area will support more development. The whole point of this thread is to note that Des Moines expanded too fast for its population. When times were good, this was no problem. However, there was no inertia to keep the economy operational when the recession hit. As a result, the areas that have slid downhill (Urbandale, NW Des Moines, etc.) during good times were severely affected during bad.

In one way, this presents an opportunity. Those locations with dozed properties are now priced substantially cheaper. If developers start making over those properties, and buying up/replacing distressed housing, the property value will start to rise. If this happens, it will discourage landlords from renting homes and encourage home ownership. This, necessarily, will decrease property crime rates, which will bolster property prices even further.

I believe I read somewhere a few weeks back that the Governor is pushing to get taxes reduced (or something like that) to make it more attractive for businesses to move to Iowa. I don't know much about this stuff, but I do recall hearing something to that effect.

[tollfree]

Vilsack wasn't for low taxes, neither was Culver. Des Moines metro grew.

Des Moines' metro also grew a lot under Branstad considering he was governor forever back then, and again now.

Des Moines will always grow at the expense of small-towns in Iowa, this can be good/bad depending how you look at it.

[capitalcityguy]

Originally Posted by nrogers1122

I suppose I made the mistake of believing my lying eyes.

Wait a minute, you can't have it both ways.

You came down on another person for "not looking outside Des Moines..." and having blinders on when commenting on the topic of the health of Des Moines. As you stated here:

Originally Posted by nrogers1122

You are the one who is clueless, or ignorant - take your pick. See, if you had bothered to look outside Des Moines, as I have, you would see that other places are not taking this recession as badly as Des Moines is.

But when I listed national publications that ranked Des Moines favorably which was in direct contrast to what you said/observed, you come back with a saractic comment about your eyes being able to demonstrate your point. This suggests NOT looking outside Des Moines and actually comparing hard numbers but rather, making a judgement on a few select areas of the metro just by observing with your eyes.

You can't have it both ways.

[tollfree]

Again, people from Iowa rarely leave. They goto Des Moines. Same is true with Sioux Falls, SD in South Dakota.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by RonnieJonez

Again, people from Iowa rarely leave. They goto Des Moines. Same is true with Sioux Falls, SD in South Dakota.

Actually they often leave Iowa to move to jobs in other cities in the Midwest and "occasionally" the coasts. Most of Iowa outside of Des Moines and the college towns have a significant brain drain.

[Trying2leaveparadise]

I find this discussion fascinating, as we are moving to Des Moines later this month and chose it specifically out of many other places we visited and researched to live and looked for a job there based on the fact that we liked Des Moines better than other larger cities we have lived in (Atlanta, D.C., Omaha, Philidelphia). We are not from Iowa and we are not hispanic (just for reference).

*And just my 2 cents, but Iowans (hope i said that right!) are probably coming back from Colorado and neighboring Rocky Mountain states because when they get out here they realize that, though it is beautiful for vacation, living here is not all they hoped it would be. The cost of living is out of this world; there is an influx of people from California driving up real estate; the job market is lousy; and wages are the lowest in the U.S. Nothing to do with this overwhelming need to return "home."*

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Trying2leaveparadise

*And just my 2 cents, but Iowans (hope i said that right!) are probably coming back from Colorado and neighboring Rocky Mountain states because when they get out here they realize that, though it is beautiful for vacation, living here is not all they hoped it would be. The cost of living is out of this world; there is an influx of people from California driving up real estate; the job market is lousy; and wages are the lowest in the U.S. Nothing to do with this overwhelming need to return "home."*

Right, that is why Colorado has the highest educational attainment at the state level of any in the US with median household incomes that are well above average. Douglas county has the second highest median household income of any county in the western US and has nearly 60% of its population with a four year degree. The cost of living is higher in Colorado because a high demand exists for people to relocate and move there. The cost of living is lower in Iowa (mainly housing) because demand is lower and Des Moines metro can stupidly pave over corn fields for more suburban sprawl development. A greater supply equals depressed RE prices that do not go up much in value over time. Some might prefer this model to the boom/bust model of more desirable locales, though.

[tollfree]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Actually they often leave Iowa to move to jobs in other cities in the Midwest and "occasionally" the coasts. Most of Iowa outside of Des Moines and the college towns have a significant brain drain.

It's often exaggerated. People leaving for more than 5 years and not not eventually returning to Iowa is what I meant.

The small-towners (that don't eventually move to Des Moines) may very well leave more than Des Moines natives. I agree with that.

[econboy]

Des Moines has had some of the highest growth rate per capita in the midwest. It is not going downhill or hurting in any way, especially compared to certain other cities around the country.

The brain drain issue is confined to the rural areas particularly in western and southern Iowa and to a lesser extent northern Iowa as well. Ames-Des Moines, Cedar Rapids-Iowa City, Council Bluffs (Omaha), Dubuque, etc. don't have a brain drain issue. But if you look across the country this is the pattern in any state where people are moving into cities for the amenities and the jobs, leaving the smaller towns to eventually dry up and blow away. Nothing new.

The Income Tax comment from earlier is interesting also. Iowa has a single payer Income Tax system which means that any income from outside Iowa a company makes, whether based in Iowa or not is not subject to Iowa income tax. This means alot of companies can avoid income taxes altogeather or pay a limited amount of them. This is not something very many states have. The downside is we try to make up for it with a higher income tax rate. alot of big corporations can locate here and not pay very much income tax at all. And we now have a crop of start ups in and around Des Moines and Iowa City that are helping to foster a better 'homegrown' business environment.

[econboy]

Originally Posted by RonnieJonez

That's not a false assumption, and plain ignorant to assume I'd need to read a tutorial on what a false assumption is. Especially, when it's not a false assumption. It's interesting that the growth in Iowa is mainly Hispanic, because there is an anti-Hispanic governor in Iowa, and arguably the most anti-Hispanic congressman of all time, Steve King is from Iowa. The native Iowans don't generally like it either. At least they're growing and can put those numbers in some "move to Iowa" brochure.


http://www.iowadatacenter.org/Publications/latino2011.pdf

Almost all of Des Moines' growth from outside of Iowa has been Hispanic. You can't even find statistics on what percent of people moved to Des Moines from around the US outside of Iowa. It's that insignificant.

Doesn't mean it's insignificant at all. There have been data released showing the rate of move ins vs. move outs and where people are moving to and from.


Actually, a large portion but obviously not all, of the metro Des Moines growth is now from out-of-staters that are moving into Des Moines proper, West Des Moines and Urbandale. Ankeny, Waukee, Grimes, Clive, Altoona, etc. still primarily attract native 'Iowans'. I would imagine by the end of the decade you will see almost as many non Iowans moving to Des Moines as native Iowans.