Des Moines' population growth outpaces state, Midwest (Iowa City, Chariton: live in, move)

[capitalcityguy]

Originally Posted by funksoulbro

Big box stores don't prompt kids to move out of their hometowns. Both small towns I lived in didn't even have Wal-Marts. One had a Pamida and the other had a Ben Franklin store. My classmates left because they wanted to get away from their parents and live in the one place that was pounded into their skull by watching WHO and KCCI all those years: Des Moines.

I really think Des Moines' media deserves a lion share's of the credit for recruiting the massive number of small-town Iowa kids it has received over the past 25-30 years. Des Moines' growth began when the farm crisis started killing rural Iowa. The city (and the media which glamorizes it) put into action a very effective campaign to capitalize on the catastrophic downturn in Iowa's rural agricultural economy.

Just like Madison has capitalized on attracting hipster d-bags from all over Wisconsin, Des Moines has figured out how to lure small-town Iowa kids away from the flaming wrecks that were once their childhood homes.

I think you're making some mistakes in your analysis by using just your own experiences and drawing conclusions without taking into account there may not really be a cause and effect relationship here. I'll give you two examples to explain.

* you seem to suggest the migration to Des Moines from rural and small town Iowa is somehow created by the Des Moines media. The problem with this conclusion is that it ignores the fact that migration from rural areas to urban areas is a nationwide tread. This is nothing unique to Iowa. It is called following the jobs.

* I grew up in north central Iowa as well. I'm guessing you weren't very far north, because where I"m from our TV stations were all from Minnesota (Austin, Rochester, Mankato) with the lone exception of the CBS affliate out of Mason City (who branded themselves as "Mason City, Albert Lea, Rochester"....so even they had strong influences from up north). On top of that, the DM Register stopped home delivery many years ago (probably has been 20-25 years), so to get a Register, you have to go and buy it (as it sits right next to the Mineapolis StarTribune on the newstands). Bottomline: there is little DM centric media available but instead there is heavy converage from Minnesota stations (and thus Minneapolis). Even without that influence, people my age and younger still migrated to urban areas and the most popular choice is Des Moines metro (even over Minneapolis....by a large margin).

Again, the migration is a trend everywhere. I think you give the DM media waaaaayy to much credit/blame.

[steel03]

Originally Posted by RonnieJonez

It may attract more people and be a larger event (also over a week long), but the Iowa vs ISU game is basically what Miss Venezuela is to Venezuelans. Even if you don't watch it, you'll hear a lot about it.

Iowa doesn't offer much variety though, so it's to be expected.

I have never watched the Iowa-Iowa State game, and the only place I ever hear about it is a little bit on Facebook by fans of the teams who rightfully want to share their excitement with their friends. Nobody older than 13 who doesn't live in IAC or Ames actually cares that much.

I don't know what you think you're talking about suggesting that the Iowa-ISU football game gets more attention than the state fair, but one of those events has weeks of dedicated advertising via every medium, copious daily news reporting from the site, daily attendance numbers substantially bigger than the capacities of both Kinnick and Jack Trice, and a total visiting audience of roughly 1.1 million annually (a third of the state's population - I seriously doubt that many people watch Iowa-ISU). Oh, and horrific traffic for a week on 235 and E University.

And you're forgetting the Iowa caucuses, which easily outstrip both Iowa-ISU and the state fair in terms of viewership and regional and national attention.

My brother lived in Madison for a year and absolutely hated it. He works as a photographer and said the self-righteous attitude of that city was unbearable. He moved to Omaha shortly thereafter and loves it there. I think I'd like Omaha if it simply didn't have "Nebraska" by its name. Nebraska is a deal-breaker for me.

Anyhoo...I'm not sure whether Des Moines can beat Madison in population growth, but I do believe Des Moines can give Madison a real challenge with the whole self-righteous angle.

This has been my experience with Madisonians as well, to be honest. It's a kick-ass little city, but there's a smugness to it that's hard to get over.
I haven't seen that attitude in Des Moines much at all. Okay, the desmoinesisnotboring article about how Des Moines is better than Minneapolis was a bit overboard, but most of the time, Des Moines just has to defend itself too much to have time for that level of smugness. Madison never gets written off as a crappy, boring agricultural wasteland. People know about it. People don't know about Des Moines.

[funksoulbro]

Originally Posted by capitalcityguy

I think you're making some mistakes in your analysis by using just your own experiences and drawing conclusions without taking into account there may not really be a cause and effect relationship here. I'll give you two examples to explain.

* you seem to suggest the migration to Des Moines from rural and small town Iowa is somehow created by the Des Moines media. The problem with this conclusion is that it ignores the fact that migration from rural areas to urban areas is a nationwide tread. This is nothing unique to Iowa. It is called following the jobs.

* I grew up in north central Iowa as well. I'm guessing you weren't very far north, because where I"m from our TV stations were all from Minnesota (Austin, Rochester, Mankato) with the lone exception of the CBS affliate out of Mason City (who branded themselves as "Mason City, Albert Lea, Rochester"....so even they had strong influences from up north).

Nobody in northern Iowa pays any attention to the Mason City-Rochester market, especially if they live south of Highway 3. Except for the northern two tiers of counties, Des Moines' media influence is very strong around a 100-mile radius. That's a ton of real estate, full young minds who are told Des Moines is the only city in Iowa that matters.

Someday, it will be the only city in Iowa. Then what will happen to the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City and Quad City online p**sing contests? They'll all be in Des Moines eating at the state's only Cheesecake Factory and marveling at the Ruan Center, Iowa's second-tallest building.

[Tek_Freek]

Ronnie, is that you?

[atler8]

Granite
I never said that Des Mones had a job advantage because Madison has a huge campus; in fact the opposite is true. Madison has an advantage over Des Moines in that regard.
What I did say is that I wished that Des Moines had an additional university within it's city limits, preferably one with a large student population & payroll. It would be a very nice additional economic engine.
I'm still not sure why this thread has semi-devolved on your part into a "Madison trumps Des Moines" effort. Can you explain your intent in pursuing that effort, Granite?
Perhaps it's because the originally linked article's author from the Des Moines Register mentioned state capitals as a comparison, which I found to be a rather poor side track to the thrust of the population growth information that the op was pointing out. In which case, please review the content of the earliest posts here from before you entered the fray. Nowhere did anyone really take up the "state capital" comparison or even say anything about Madison until you came along.
And nowhere has there been any mention of the attractiveness of either city until your post of last night. I've been to Madison probably four to five dozen times & I get it: it is a physically very attractive city but that has nothing to do with the population stats that were originally written about.
And I'm delighted for you that you live in such a great & beautiful city. But be assured that the many strong suits of Madison are balanced out by many strong suits of Des Moines, one of which is that Des Moines is a financial/insurance powerhouse which has led it to have by comparison a downtown area that truly has a skyline & looks like a center of commerce.
As for using Dane County versus Polk County stats, which you did yesterday, be mindful of the fact that in area, Dane County is huge & would be the largest county in Iowa in land area if it were in Iowa. In fact, it is larger in area than Polk & Dallas Counties combined. So, any examination of Polk stats needs to take into account the fact that by it's closein location, Dallas Counties' eastern edge could be approximately as closein as Middleton is to the capitol square in Madison.
Thus the Polk stats are overly skewed by the fact that a large portion of the metro area's newest & nearby higher income & job producing suburban area is in a separate county. Nevertheless, Polk still performs well.
On a final note here, early on without much explanation, you wrote that Des Moines does not compete with Madison which I might find to be the height of fallacy if I really knew what you meant.

[funksoulbro]

Originally Posted by steel03

This has been my experience with Madisonians as well, to be honest. It's a kick-ass little city, but there's a smugness to it that's hard to get over.
I haven't seen that attitude in Des Moines much at all. Okay, the desmoinesisnotboring article about how Des Moines is better than Minneapolis was a bit overboard, but most of the time, Des Moines just has to defend itself too much to have time for that level of smugness. Madison never gets written off as a crappy, boring agricultural wasteland. People know about it. People don't know about Des Moines.

I've never been to Madison. The wife always raves about it when she and her mom take their yearly trip up there. That recommendation is enough of a red flag for me to stay the H*ll away. It sounds like a total nozzle fest based on recorded testimony from both my brother and The Misses.

I have first-hand experience with Des Moines, going back decades. The city itself is just fine. The people it attracts are not. So, I guess you could say I'm torn in two directions. On one hand, it's hard to deny that (for Iowa) Des Moines is probably the best option out there when it comes to cultural and economic amenities...hands down. However, I like meeting friendly people who can also see well beyond their comfort zone. None of those folks exist in Des Moines. For them, Iowa is their comfort zone. Nothing wrong with that, but it tends to attract a mentality that is neither charming nor worldly.

[funksoulbro]

Originally Posted by Tek_Freek

Ronnie, is that you?

It is not, but I have to admit Ronnie is nailing you guys to the wall.

[funksoulbro]

Originally Posted by atler8

But be assured that the many strong suits of Madison are balanced out by many strong suits of Des Moines, one of which is that Des Moines is a financial/insurance powerhouse which has led it to have by comparison a downtown area that truly has a skyline & looks like a center of commerce.

You like a big skyline and a center of commerce? Why are you settling for Des Moines then?

Even lowly Omaha has more of a diversified commerce base (and better skyline) than Des Moines. And, of course, Omaha gets blown to pieces by cities like Minneapolis or Chicago who have actual skylines comprised of more than just three "sorta tall" buildings.

I chuckle at you Des Moines people. You really think a couple tall buildings in a state that has none is all it takes.

[steel03]

Originally Posted by funksoulbro

It is not, but I have to admit Ronnie is nailing you guys to the wall.

lol not really

If anyone in this thread is taking names, it's atler8.
Wish I could give you more reputation, atler8.

[Tek_Freek]

Originally Posted by funksoulbro

It is not, but I have to admit Ronnie is nailing you guys to the wall.

Yup, it's Ronnie.