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Old 10-26-2011, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,647 posts, read 8,555,774 times
Reputation: 3775

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Yes there is more crime. But interestingly, it's not as much violent crime. Apparently people are less willingly to pull out a gun if there's hordes of people around.

New York, NY Crime Map - Showing Crimes in New York - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

Whereas Detroit, with the lack of people, lack of witnesses and/or police officers/armed personnel, people can pretty much get away with murder.

Detroit, MI Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Detroit - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

You can notice the difference better in Chicago, since Manhattan is smaller than Detroit and that might negate the argument. Lots of assault but almost all of it is away from the CBD.

Chicago, IL Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Chicago - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

Here's Atlanta just because it was mentioned. Lots of burglaries... Interestingly, the only recent shooting on Atlanta's map involved a MARTA officer. It's one of those questionable actions by an officer with fuzzy details.

Atlanta, GA Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Atlanta - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

But again, no connection between transit and criminal activity. Plus it'd be stupid not to have security cameras at stations and it'd be stupid for that to be the first option for criminals to go to.

Oh look at me, waiting for the train after just robbing a store. Not on camera with my face identifiable or anything.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 5,851,593 times
Reputation: 2691
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
Yes there is more crime. But interestingly, it's not as much violent crime. Apparently people are less willingly to pull out a gun if there's hordes of people around.

New York, NY Crime Map - Showing Crimes in New York - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

Whereas Detroit, with the lack of people, lack of witnesses and/or police officers/armed personnel, people can pretty much get away with murder.

Detroit, MI Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Detroit - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

You can notice the difference better in Chicago, since Manhattan is smaller than Detroit and that might negate the argument. Lots of assault but almost all of it is away from the CBD.

Chicago, IL Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Chicago - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

Here's Atlanta just because it was mentioned. Lots of burglaries... Interestingly, the only recent shooting on Atlanta's map involved a MARTA officer. It's one of those questionable actions by an officer with fuzzy details.

Atlanta, GA Crime Map - Showing Crimes in Atlanta - Crime Statistics, Alerts and Reports - Crime Stops Here

But again, no connection between transit and criminal activity. Plus it'd be stupid not to have security cameras at stations and it'd be stupid for that to be the first option for criminals to go to.

Oh look at me, waiting for the train after just robbing a store. Not on camera with my face identifiable or anything.
The majority of those violent crimes happened in populated neighborhoods where there are all types of people around. Of course not as much as a NY neighborhood but lack of people is not the case. Lack of witnesses and police officers are. If the cops in NY took an hour to respond to a killing, there violent crime rate would be much much higher.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:09 PM
 
7 posts, read 8,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
There was a study where they put a few rats in a small cage and they all got along well. The put in more rats, but gave them plenty of food and after a time, the rats attacked and killed each other. Then they put a few rats in a very big cage, they were fine. Then they put a lot of rats in a very big cage. They got along fine.

The scientists decided that this shows why densely populated cities have higher per capita crime rates than less densely populated cities. This is not the first study to demonstrate that scientists think that people and rats are the same.
Why are we being compared to rats?
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,647 posts, read 8,555,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313 View Post
The majority of those violent crimes happened in populated neighborhoods where there are all types of people around. Of course not as much as a NY neighborhood but lack of people is not the case. Lack of witnesses and police officers are. If the cops in NY took an hour to respond to a killing, there violent crime rate would be much much higher.
Ah well, I just wanted to point out that population density increasing in Detroit's case doesn't mean higher of the same types of crimes (at least if Detroit follows the same patterns as the other cities) and also the other factors that come into play, but then I don't even remember how that debate even came up by being related to the Woodward Rail.

If anything, a higher population within Detroit would help in the form of money. (Taxes, retail, etc.) Then more money can be used for a better police force. If more people start to live along Woodward because of the M1 rail, then no complaints by me. Don't know if this is more OT or less.
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,703 posts, read 79,445,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champ87 View Post
Why are we being compared to rats?
Ask the scientists. I thnk that answer is that rats are cheaper than monkeys.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,647 posts, read 8,555,774 times
Reputation: 3775
Woodward light rail line group says it will pay for first 10 years of operations | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Woodward light-rail group boosts cost estimate to $137 million | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120423/METRO05/204230407/Woodward-light-rail-group-boosts-cost-estimate-137-million?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE - broken link)
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Downtown Detroit
1,497 posts, read 3,479,217 times
Reputation: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
Woodward light rail line group says it will pay for first 10 years of operations | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Woodward light-rail group boosts cost estimate to $137 million | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120423/METRO05/204230407/Woodward-light-rail-group-boosts-cost-estimate-137-million?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE - broken link)
That's a pretty sweet deal if you ask me.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 5,851,593 times
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Yea it is a sweet deal. But im still pissed off about it only going 3 miles. Guess ill have to settle for this for now. I hope I don't have to wait 10 years for something better though.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:51 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,966 posts, read 19,434,375 times
Reputation: 25443
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313 View Post
Yea it is a sweet deal. But im still pissed off about it only going 3 miles. Guess ill have to settle for this for now. I hope I don't have to wait 10 years for something better though.
You'll be waiting a lot longer than that. If this light rail were such a great idea, don't you think the "group" would want to keep control of it for longer? The reason they don't is because they are smart enough to know that this will be a money pit that the city will only keep running to save face (like the People Mover). If they were willing to run it indefinitely, I would be very much in support of it because that would tell me that they have enough confidence in it as businesspeople that it would be self-sustaining.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Downtown Detroit
1,497 posts, read 3,479,217 times
Reputation: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
You'll be waiting a lot longer than that. If this light rail were such a great idea, don't you think the "group" would want to keep control of it for longer? The reason they don't is because they are smart enough to know that this will be a money pit that the city will only keep running to save face (like the People Mover). If they were willing to run it indefinitely, I would be very much in support of it because that would tell me that they have enough confidence in it as businesspeople that it would be self-sustaining.
Retroit, there is no piece of transit infrastructure in the US other than Maroun's monopoly bridge that is privately owned and profitably operated. The government has seen to it that it shall control all forms of transit, how it is paid for, who can use it, and where it is to be built. This M1 rail line is as close as you and I will likely see to private transit in our lifetimes. They are even fighting government to get it built. The whole story conjures up allusions to Atlas Shrugged.

People of all political persuasions should be lining up to support this M1 Rail effort, from conservatives to transit-riding environmentalists. Having a private group put up this much money to build and operate a rail line hasn't happened since Carnegie sold Vanderbilt the steel to build his railroad. This should be a glorious moment for those of us who revel for a time when private enterprise again operates the means of travel.
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