What Killed Detroit (Livonia, Wayne, Coleman: move to, housing, suburbs)

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by Tenzo

I majored in Econ at the University of Michigan.

One of the things we studied was the downfall of Detroit.
From the economic viewpoints it's pretty simple.

1) Increase taxes
2) People leave for lower taxed, less expensive areas since industry was becoming more decentralized
3) Less people and business meant lower tax base
4) Decrease core services and GoTo 1:

Continue until there are no businesses or people left to pay the taxes.

Philly is going through it right now.

Our country as a whole is kind of going thru that now.


Saw a special on the History channel a month or so ago. From what they said the turn around for Detroit were the riots. After that it was a slow downhill slide....

[Vicman]

Texas is not going through this at all. Taxation is kept at an optimal level and is implemented through comfortable means.

AFAIK Philly is having this to a lesser degree; there was a plan to close several libraries, but there were many feathers rankled by that.

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

Our country as a whole is kind of going thru that now.


Saw a special on the History channel a month or so ago. From what they said the turn around for Detroit were the riots. After that it was a slow downhill slide....

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Vicman

Texas is not going through this at all. Taxation is kept at an optimal level and is implemented through comfortable means.

AFAIK Philly is having this to a lesser degree; there was a plan to close several libraries, but there were many feathers rankled by that.

What kind of taxation do you think would be helpful to keep services running at a good level and at the same time be reasonable? I am still keeping in mind the people factor.

[Vicman]

I'll explain how the Texas state system works. The state of Texas makes money off of sales taxes, the lottery, and other taxes on luxuries. Income taxies are not levied on items that are considered necessities, and before school there is a tax holiday so that parents can buy school supplies with no tax added. There is NO state income tax in Texas. Municipalities and local school districts make money off of property taxes. Texas has a "Robin Hood" system where property-poor school districts (with few businesses that generate money) receive money from property-rich school districts (which have many businesses) - This means that many rural and suburban school districts, which are property-poor, receive money while property-rich urban districts give money away.

If the question is asking how to effectively Detroit, I would have to think about that for awhile because Detroit is in a very unusual, unenviable situation of having a depleted tax base. One thing I thought of right away is to that the state government should impose salary caps and pass a law to allow itself to trim city employees on its own whim. I think that if the state government can force the city government to be "lean" and to make it so that every employee has to work hard at his or her job, the state and city could more easily work together. Also the state could force Highland Park, MI to consolidate into Detroit (although better police response may be a reason to keep Highland Park separate) so that school boundaries and other resources could be more effectively harnessed. The State of Michigan could also consider having suburban municipalities merge with each other (though they would never touch Detroit)

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

What kind of taxation do you think would be helpful to keep services running at a good level and at the same time be reasonable? I am still keeping in mind the people factor.

[poohbear1961]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I have one question to ask everyone: What do YOU think can be done to help Detroit come back?

My answer would be immigration. There are so many dirt poor people in the world who do not have anything. The U.S. should invite refugees to come live in Detroit, but they have to stay there for 8 years to become U.S. citizens. And of course they get supported but more importantly are given the skills and dollars to form strong communities. Take some of the overseas aid that the US is giving to countries like Israel and corrupt nations and funnel it back into community/housing development in Detroit. Make Detroit into a world class city of hope for refugees. The jobs wouldn't happen overnight but imagine how happy some parents would be that their kids can go to school and have a real roof over their heads etc. In no time those people would be sending U.S. dollars to the relatives left behind and this would help others as well. Bring in people who would see Detroit as an improvement on their current existance.

[poohbear1961]

give it a break. what's so good about whiteysization? capitalism? pollution? loss of real community? welfare? working long hours your whole life to pay off one freakin' mortgage? consumerism? materialism? sexism?
Africa is largely f&** because white people made it that way, via capitalism and colonialism. I am a white person but my ancestors came from Europe to America on steamships for a better life... and in the case of my grandfather that meant being a coalminer which gave him black lungs, but his kids got a highschool education in Detroit.
We aren't educated about African societies before the advent of white invaders and coffee plantations and beef farms and all the rest of it. It is the loss of values/pride/appreciation which allows unoccupied houses to be burnt down for sport. Discrimination can be fought against when the discriminated are healthy enough in their core. Poor people, all colours, have always been discriminated against throughout history. Why would some smuck get on a steamboat from Poland to work in a coalmine in another country? Because it was a **** life in Poland.
So bring in the refugees, the ones who don't speak English, who would think if you gave them 10 chickens they were rich, would keep a milk goat in the garage and plant potatos in the vacant lot next door and even poo there at night for extra fertiliser and go "America... very good country... but very cold here". Detroit needs that fresh blood.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by poohbear1961

My answer would be immigration. There are so many dirt poor people in the world who do not have anything. The U.S. should invite refugees to come live in Detroit, but they have to stay there for 8 years to become U.S. citizens. And of course they get supported but more importantly are given the skills and dollars to form strong communities. Take some of the overseas aid that the US is giving to countries like Israel and corrupt nations and funnel it back into community/housing development in Detroit. Make Detroit into a world class city of hope for refugees. The jobs wouldn't happen overnight but imagine how happy some parents would be that their kids can go to school and have a real roof over their heads etc. In no time those people would be sending U.S. dollars to the relatives left behind and this would help others as well. Bring in people who would see Detroit as an improvement on their current existance.

Immigration could play a part of Detroit's potential comeback. Now I have this to ask:what about the people already living there?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by JMadison

Well, let's get down to the source of your observation...

Car companies actively recruited blacks from the south for cheap labor to the area. *That* was the death knell.

It's the same everywhere, worldwide. Africanization preceeds decline and fall.

Africanization huh? Did you ever think for once that it boils down to economics. Blacks wanted to leave the South because there weren't many opportunities down there for them, not to mention they were being treated like crap down there with the Jim Crow laws and such. That is why they went to Detroit, they wanted something better than what they had in the South. Well, conditions in Detroit weren't that much better. You say Africanization ruins things. Did you think that when explorers were going into Africa to colonise it, that it caused ruin in Africa.
Why don't you just admit you don't want black people anywhere near you no matter how educated they are. I bet you justify black people being treated like crap in this nation.

[zthatzmanz28]

I vote economics AND incompetent LEADERSHIP....

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

I vote economics AND incompetent LEADERSHIP....

Taking this in mind, now would be the time for Detroit to make its comeback. If the persons in leadership are not doing their job, they need to be fired. Now would also be a good time for Detroit to take advantage of the green industry. That could be the economic spark that Detroit needs. Fact is, more people are leaving Detroit than moving in and you can't outsource certain jobs, so for that reason, it can be an economic incentive for the local population. Another thing that would not only help Michigan, but the rest of the USA is a steep tariff on outsourcing jobs offshore. More needs to be done to keep jobs in the nation. In short, it is going to take leaders and business people who actually care enough about the city of Detroit and who are looking long-term rather than short-term.