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You mentioned it isn't safe for a white person. It isn't much safer for a black person either, or for anyone either. I know there are alot of lowlifes in Detroit. That being said, my heart goes out to the people who have to live with those lowlifes.
As for not needing rapid transit, why not just admit it and say you don't want rapid transit and why you don't want it. I say rapid transit is a good idea.
I really don't have any feelings either way, haven't really thought of it as good or bad. I guess it would be a good thing if it would help turn the city around and give it some kind of world class status.
I just don't see it happening with the kind of leadership and residents that we have.
We have a whole new neighborhood going up as I write. Its located at Joy Rd. and Southfield Fwy. in he 48228 zip code, where the Herman Gardens Housing Project formally stood. Very nice beautiful homes, earmarked for low income. Give it 5/7 years and it will once again be a dump. Why? Because, beautiful homes do not make a beautiful neighborhood, the people do.
That is precisely why a Mass Transit System just won't work here. The people! Drive around anywhere here and you will see the lack of pride, all the new homes, Mass Transit and new roads in the world will never make a difference.
Because a person is poor, is no reason to live like a pig.
It would be nice if we could take all of the good people from all walks of life and give them a part of the city they could call home and give the rest a part to themselves with a 60 foot wall around it and let them do as they will.
I really don't have any feelings either way, haven't really thought of it as good or bad. I guess it would be a good thing if it would help turn the city around and give it some kind of world class status.
I just don't see it happening with the kind of leadership and residents that we have.
We have a whole new neighborhood going up as I write. Its located at Joy Rd. and Southfield Fwy. in he 48228 zip code, where the Herman Gardens Housing Project formally stood. Very nice beautiful homes, earmarked for low income. Give it 5/7 years and it will once again be a dump. Why? Because, beautiful homes do not make a beautiful neighborhood, the people do.
That is precisely why a Mass Transit System just won't work here. The people! Drive around anywhere here and you will see the lack of pride, all the new homes, Mass Transit and new roads in the world will never make a difference.
Because a person is poor, is no reason to live like a pig.
It would be nice if we could take all of the good people from all walks of life and give them a part of the city they could call home and give the rest a part to themselves with a 60 foot wall around it and let them do as they will.
I didn't say there were people with no pride. What I sense is a dangerous atitude. I look at it from this perspective. What about the persons who want to work but don't have cars? What about the persons who do have some pride in themselves, but are mired in the mess of Detroit and can't get out? I have said this before(somewhere else) and I will say it again. If the citizens living in Detroit are not part of the deal, then the problems regarding them will not get solved, just relocated somewhere else. What I am talking about is any project that would help Detroit to come back.
You mentioned it isn't safe for a white person. It isn't much safer for a black person either, or for anyone either. I know there are alot of lowlifes in Detroit. That being said, my heart goes out to the people who have to live with those lowlifes.
As for not needing rapid transit, why not just admit it and say you don't want rapid transit and why you don't want it. I say rapid transit is a good idea.
I think that is true, it isn't safe for a white OR black person.
But, if a person is black, they have a little less liklihood of someone singling them out along racial lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte
I have said this before(somewhere else) and I will say it again. If the citizens living in Detroit are not part of the deal, then the problems regarding them will not get solved, just relocated somewhere else. What I am talking about is any project that would help Detroit to come back.
SO TRUE. This is the key to anything, the people who are THERE must be involved in the solution. Once they get involved, there will be change.
I think, for the most part, anything and everything that goes on in Detroit, they seem to be trying to do things without involving the people who are already there as much as possible. There is the idea of bringing money in from somewhere as the solution.
True, you need money from somewhere, but they're talking about how to bring in corporate money or whatever else.
Civic pride, etc. is the other area. If people in Detroit were so inclined, they could attempt to beautify Detroit, make it worthwhile to live and work.
If you look at other cities, for example, I think New York does a great job at making things better. Harlem is a wealthy black area that use to not be so wealthy at all. People cared about the community, tons of people focused on it to make it better, and as it became better, more money moved in. Granted, most of it was money from black wealth, but I think that is what the community needed and wanted anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
I think there are many cities around the U.S. that the people DO gather around and support their communities. I see it in both black and white and whatever other community. Detroit seems to lack it compared to other cities as far as I can see. But I think there is a national interest among some outside parties - whether they are social empowerment movements or artistic communities or the Detroit is great farmland for urban growing, etc. The ideas are out there.
Unionization killed Detroit and is killing the Midwest. The south is rising again because of its deunionization. When will the people and the Democrats learn?
Plus it is tiring and pathetic to blame things on 'unions'...
People that read about economics and other larger picture issues see it almost entirely as the American automobile industry not being able to keep up with the times. Creating gas guzzlers (which is really ONLY possible in the massive highway-centered spread-out U.S., and NOT possible in Europe & Japan (condensed streets, smaller is more manageable and expensive gas - don't want to spend a fortune on gas)...or third world countries with expense issues.
America pretty much ONLY focused on the domestic market, and only on the gas-guzzling monster truck oriented way of thinking...
The rest of the world studied and saw what the rest of the world needed and made those cars.
To blame that on the 'unions' is ridiculous. Unions didn't force the major players in the American auto industry to be myopic and short-sighted. They basically did that because they are too American-centric and weren't able to see the global world market.
I think that is true, it isn't safe for a white OR black person.
But, if a person is black, they have a little less liklihood of someone singling them out along racial lines.
SO TRUE. This is the key to anything, the people who are THERE must be involved in the solution. Once they get involved, there will be change.
I think, for the most part, anything and everything that goes on in Detroit, they seem to be trying to do things without involving the people who are already there as much as possible. There is the idea of bringing money in from somewhere as the solution.
True, you need money from somewhere, but they're talking about how to bring in corporate money or whatever else.
Civic pride, etc. is the other area. If people in Detroit were so inclined, they could attempt to beautify Detroit, make it worthwhile to live and work.
If you look at other cities, for example, I think New York does a great job at making things better. Harlem is a wealthy black area that use to not be so wealthy at all. People cared about the community, tons of people focused on it to make it better, and as it became better, more money moved in. Granted, most of it was money from black wealth, but I think that is what the community needed and wanted anyways. Nothing wrong with that.
I think there are many cities around the U.S. that the people DO gather around and support their communities. I see it in both black and white and whatever other community. Detroit seems to lack it compared to other cities as far as I can see. But I think there is a national interest among some outside parties - whether they are social empowerment movements or artistic communities or the Detroit is great farmland for urban growing, etc. The ideas are out there.
True, maybe in Detroit, race would be less of a reason for me getting killed. On the other hand, my chances of randomly getting murdered are high too.
There needs to be a civic pride in the community. There needs to be a sense of what Detroit once was and what it can be. Detroit may have been Motor City and Music City. In a way, it can still be a music city. It wasn't just R and B that flourished here. Techno was invented in Detroit. Very few people know that. Detroit doesn't have to be just the Motor City. It can be new things, other things, greater things, make a name for itself in other ways. People need to be proud of Detroit too. Yes, it has gone bad, but there needs to be a movement to revive Detroit among its citizens. This whole Renaissance movement in Detroit, well, I don't know what part the citizens are playing, but if they aren't the ones benefiting or being involved, well, how will they take pride in Detroit? This "Renaissance" thing in Detroit should extend to the citizens, to make them feel pride in being part of Detroit's rebirth, in bringing it back.
UNions saved the American Dream. Ask Pullman Workers what conditioins were like before A. Phillip Randolph organized them.
Ask the sit-down strikers in Flint..
Ask the men who died on the Miller Street overpass what it was like to work for Henry at the turn of the century in the Rouge Plant..
It is Walmart, Wall Street, and GREED that is killing EVERYONE...
Unions helped establish essential rights for workers around 80-100 years ago. However, as industry began setting up shop in the southern states and overseas, it became impossible for companies in jurisdictions with strong union laws to compete. GM went under because it was more in the business of paying inflated salaries and pensions than making cars, and the unions would prefer to see the company go under than have the workers paid a more competitive salary.
Wall Street is greedy, but unions are just as much so.
I also have a hard time believing that a non-existent rapid transit system contributed to Detroit's decline. The most bombed-out neighborhoods in Chicago are on the west side and the south side situated in areas with 2 train lines less than a mile apart.
I also have a hard time believing that a non-existent rapid transit system contributed to Detroit's decline. The most bombed-out neighborhoods in Chicago are on the west side and the south side situated in areas with 2 train lines less than a mile apart.
No it helps control the fall. I lived on the west side of Chicago and it would be even worse if people could not get out. Ghettos are not places overflowing with jobs. Public transit in Chicago allows low income folks to get to work or school in places other than nearby communities. So you might live on the west side of Chicago and hop the green line to work downtown or perhaps in the nearby burb of Oak park.
It also helps make Chicago attractive to higher income people. They can have a nice house with a big lawn out in the burbs and work downtown without a nasty drive. They can spend money in the city for lunch or perhaps a play after work. Both the green and blue lines are packed with downtown workers during rush and many of them live in the nearby west burbs.
Honestly a bus is not a good substitute for rapid transit. In fact during rush hour the el system is faster than a car. You need rapid transit for long or longish hauls(>10 miles) and buses for local service.
Anyway the reason why the west and south-side remain messed up is because people that have worked out of poverty move to nicer areas and people who have income do not wish to move into bad areas. Public transit wont fix things but it can help stabilize things quite a bit. My grandmother and her friends used public transit in that rough neighborhood and it gave them a measure of Independence not waiting for someone to drive them.
Last edited by chirack; 11-23-2009 at 11:26 PM..
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