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Old 03-01-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,403,084 times
Reputation: 39425

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
Redoing up the old facotries would come at a great price due to the addicts and homeless that use them as shelter and the erosion/weathering that has taken place over the period. Many schools have been shut and more are going to be shut so i would guess that the population is quite uneducated (generalization) so factory/manufacturing work may be a way of improving the economy.
Do you know anything about the United States?

School here is mandatory. We do nto just close schools and leave people with no school. Schools are being closed because millions of people have moved out of Detroit and there are not enough kids left int he city to need all of the school. Thus, they are consolidating to save money. It does nto mean that people are undereducated. However the conclusion may be correct even if the reasoning is not. Once someone turns 16 they are permitted to drop out of school. Many do. Some drop out even earlier and just dodge the truant officers who of course are underfunded and overworked. So ther emay well be a lot of undereducated people living in Detroit, but it has nothing to do with closing a lot of schools. It has to do with the culture of poverty.

I ahve wandered around in some mothballed old factories. I did not see any addicts or homeless people living in them, nor any sign of homeless people or addicts living there. Why woudl they bother when there are hundreds of abandoned homes where they can live? LIving in a factory would not be pleasant. Further there are a lot of shelters where the hmelss can stay if they choose. We really do nto see a lot of homeless people wandering around Detroit. It is not like Los Angeles or New York. Either they just hide, or they leave for warmer climates.

The economy here was build around manufacturing. UNions ensured that the workers were very well paid and had great benefits. Then the union started making all kinds of crazy rules in competition with each other. THe manufacturing went to China, Mexico and Korea, where people work for sustenance wages and do not object to poor benefits and treatment. That is why Michigan is in the state it is in (Detroit was already in trouble for different reasons). Restoring a factory or building a new one will not do oyu any good if you do not have a viable company to occupy the factory.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: London, England
643 posts, read 1,119,332 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Do you know anything about the United States?

School here is mandatory. We do nto just close schools and leave people with no school. Schools are being closed because millions of people have moved out of Detroit and there are not enough kids left int he city to need all of the school. Thus, they are consolidating to save money. It does nto mean that people are undereducated. However the conclusion may be correct even if the reasoning is not. Once someone turns 16 they are permitted to drop out of school. Many do. Some drop out even earlier and just dodge the truant officers who of course are underfunded and overworked. So ther emay well be a lot of undereducated people living in Detroit, but it has nothing to do with closing a lot of schools. It has to do with the culture of poverty.

I ahve wandered around in some mothballed old factories. I did not see any addicts or homeless people living in them, nor any sign of homeless people or addicts living there. Why woudl they bother when there are hundreds of abandoned homes where they can live? LIving in a factory would not be pleasant. Further there are a lot of shelters where the hmelss can stay if they choose. We really do nto see a lot of homeless people wandering around Detroit. It is not like Los Angeles or New York. Either they just hide, or they leave for warmer climates.

The economy here was build around manufacturing. UNions ensured that the workers were very well paid and had great benefits. Then the union started making all kinds of crazy rules in competition with each other. THe manufacturing went to China, Mexico and Korea, where people work for sustenance wages and do not object to poor benefits and treatment. That is why Michigan is in the state it is in (Detroit was already in trouble for different reasons). Restoring a factory or building a new one will not do oyu any good if you do not have a viable company to occupy the factory.
Even more schools are going to be shut and this will lead to even bigger classes which can lead to decreased education. The fact that there are so many unemployed could mean that they are willing to work on a subsidised wage. And when i toured Detroit we went to some of the factorys but due to people in them, we could not go in.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:44 PM
 
134 posts, read 489,426 times
Reputation: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
Redoing up the old facotries would come at a great price due to the addicts and homeless that use them as shelter and the erosion/weathering that has taken place over the period. Many schools have been shut and more are going to be shut so i would guess that the population is quite uneducated (generalization) so factory/manufacturing work may be a way of improving the economy.
Im not claiming its the be all cure all for Detroit or any other crippled industrial city whether it be Detroit, Cleveland, select cities in Indiana and Illinois or wherever but ppl flocked there for manufacturing back say 20-30 years ago, a large part of the employment for manufacturing was infact you didnt need a degree and it payed well, you could support yourself and your family. while it may hurt Detroit in some aspects in others more manufacturing being brought in could help the people left there. but as you stated you know that already I just feel horrible for any city thats been through hell like Detroit. I saw someone above me say its like Nevada roll the dice, idk if its a comparison but Nevada made money off Tourism and the casino industry, they started really hurting mid 00s when the tourism started to slowly vanish along with the money people brought to play the casinos. So with that Vegas for Example hasnt been hurting for as long or as bad as Detroit. I also dont know if its an even comparison due to Vegas was gambling/tourism while Detroit was Automotive, Manufacturing.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,403,084 times
Reputation: 39425
Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
Even more schools are going to be shut and this will lead to even bigger classes which can lead to decreased education. The fact that there are so many unemployed could mean that they are willing to work on a subsidised wage. And when i toured Detroit we went to some of the factorys but due to people in them, we could not go in.
IF they are closing schools due to lack of students, bigger classes is nto the problem. How does bigger class size lead to decreased education in any event? How big does a class need to be in order to lead to decreased education? In high school I had classes of 40 to 45 people. In college I had classes as big as 680 people. I did nto see any link to decreased education from this.

I do know that large class sizes can make a difference in dealing with problem students at the elementary or Jr. High levels, but how much is class size being increased? I think that class size maximums are dictated by law. At least they are in some states.

How were you going to go into factory on a tour? That would be tresspassing and you could be arrested. Tours do not go tino abandoned factories. If you want to visit an abandoned factory go with a real property broker and they will make certain that there are no people or ghosts or anything inside (as long as you convince them that you are actaully a potnetial buyer). However, you are not going to get itno a factory otherwise. One of my neighbors owns a large abandoned factory. I would love to tour inside, but they have to keep people out for liablity reasons.

How did you know that there were people in the factories if you did not go in them. Was some crotchety old geezer standing out front yelling "This is my house! Stay out of my house!"
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,403,084 times
Reputation: 39425
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfella24 View Post
Im not claiming its the be all cure all for Detroit or any other crippled industrial city whether it be Detroit, Cleveland, select cities in Indiana and Illinois or wherever but ppl flocked there for manufacturing back say 20-30 years ago, a large part of the employment for manufacturing was infact you didnt need a degree and it payed well, you could support yourself and your family. while it may hurt Detroit in some aspects in others more manufacturing being brought in could help the people left there. but as you stated you know that already I just feel horrible for any city thats been through hell like Detroit. I saw someone above me say its like Nevada roll the dice, idk if its a comparison but Nevada made money off Tourism and the casino industry, they started really hurting mid 00s when the tourism started to slowly vanish along with the money people brought to play the casinos. So with that Vegas for Example hasnt been hurting for as long or as bad as Detroit. I also dont know if its an even comparison due to Vegas was gambling/tourism while Detroit was Automotive, Manufacturing.
I do not think that they were comapring NEvada to Detroit, I think that they were saying that investing in real estate here is a gamble. It is like rolling the dice at a Vegas Casino. You may lose your money, or you could win big.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:37 PM
 
491 posts, read 1,116,234 times
Reputation: 254
You can get cheap land and you'll immediately lose whatever you saved 100 fold in taxes and security. As far as the working population, there are laws in place, so, no, you can't exploit them like third world workers. I worked in a factory that didn't pay that well in an affluent part of Detroit. So labor is probably not a problem.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan
1,107 posts, read 3,060,095 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
With so many abandoned neighbourhoods and houses surely it would be a good time to build a factory/manufacturing type building simply due to the cheap land prices and high unemployment.

Thoughts?
Michgian is very heavily unionized and the compines would go broke with the union workers getting $25/hr and demanding $50/hr pay wage while shutting the company down by going on strike to nickle and dime the company. That is why so many manufacturing companies have moved to the southern states or Mexico and China. People in those parts are willing to work for $12-$14/hr;which is a generous fair pay rate if you're a high school grad/drop out.

It's a good idea, but just don't see it panning out to be a help unless the state regulates unions so they are not stronger than the employer in order for Michigan and Detroit to see a boost back in manufacturing. Just my two cents!
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Downtown Detroit
1,497 posts, read 3,477,458 times
Reputation: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwo85 View Post
Michgian is very heavily unionized and the compines would go broke with the union workers getting $25/hr and demanding $50/hr pay wage while shutting the company down by going on strike to nickle and dime the company. That is why so many manufacturing companies have moved to the southern states or Mexico and China. People in those parts are willing to work for $12-$14/hr;which is a generous fair pay rate if you're a high school grad/drop out.

It's a good idea, but just don't see it panning out to be a help unless the state regulates unions so they are not stronger than the employer in order for Michigan and Detroit to see a boost back in manufacturing. Just my two cents!
Well, there are lots of small and medium sized shops that are non-union. I worked at a medium sized machine shop that was non-union and most of the guys on the floor were actually anti-union. There was one guy who always spouted off his union rhetoric from his days at GM, but nobody liked him, and eventually, he quit or retired. I am not against unions because they play an important role protecting our standard of living, but it is definitely possible to operate a non-union shop in Detroit. If you are fair and decent in dealing with your employees, most will not unionize.

The bottom line is, if you don't treat your employees like disposable trash, they won't be inclined to form a labor union.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: London, England
643 posts, read 1,119,332 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
IF they are closing schools due to lack of students, bigger classes is nto the problem. How does bigger class size lead to decreased education in any event? How big does a class need to be in order to lead to decreased education? In high school I had classes of 40 to 45 people. In college I had classes as big as 680 people. I did nto see any link to decreased education from this.

I do know that large class sizes can make a difference in dealing with problem students at the elementary or Jr. High levels, but how much is class size being increased? I think that class size maximums are dictated by law. At least they are in some states.

How were you going to go into factory on a tour? That would be tresspassing and you could be arrested. Tours do not go tino abandoned factories. If you want to visit an abandoned factory go with a real property broker and they will make certain that there are no people or ghosts or anything inside (as long as you convince them that you are actaully a potnetial buyer). However, you are not going to get itno a factory otherwise. One of my neighbors owns a large abandoned factory. I would love to tour inside, but they have to keep people out for liablity reasons.

How did you know that there were people in the factories if you did not go in them. Was some crotchety old geezer standing out front yelling "This is my house! Stay out of my house!"

Very funny but it was some urban exploration and we had some local guiding us and he sent in his 'boys' to check it out first.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,004 posts, read 2,761,586 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
With so many abandoned neighbourhoods and houses surely it would be a good time to build a factory/manufacturing type building simply due to the cheap land prices and high unemployment.

Thoughts?
Detroit is the largest most devastating city in the US that I can think of. With the city being so large it helps/ hurts it's situation. Though one of Detroit largest devastations is ofcourse its crime, and therefore automatically becomes unattractive to the public.
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