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Those homes are close to 100 years old.
Poorly insulated and costly to heat in the winter.
Probably old plumbing/electric and tons of lead paint
Might even find asbestos insulating the boiler pipes.
The values of those homes are going down not up.
Would be difficult to sell in the future.
In return for paying high property taxes, you have to
pay for private security, private schools and worry
about the safety of your family.
Sorry to say it but your memories of the good old days are over.
Stay in the suburbs.
Why would you jeopardize the safety of your family?
Wow! Wht an exercise in excessive negativity. Your philosophy seems to be always assume the worst and therefore do nothing at all.
Why do you assume that old homes are poorly insulated? My house is 175 this year. It is insulated with the latest ICYNENE foam insulation except in some walls that have blown in cellulose (a few places need some attention becuase the insulation company pulled a fraud on us, but that is just a detail).
Why do you assume old plumbing an electric, and if so, why is that a problem. Old electric works just fine, however most of it has been replaced. If you only accept the most modern in electric and plumbing, then you must by a brand new house every three or four years to keep all of your systems up to date. However why make that assumption. OUr 175 year old house has 2007 electical system and current PEX plumbing. Why wouldn't many of the houses in INdian villiage be the same? Why would you assume the negative (i.e. that the systems are old and not working) rather than the positive (i.e. that the sytems are newer and/or working) especially when people are living in those houses now. Are they living with non-functioning plumbing?
Tons of lead paint? That would be an awful lot of paint. Lead paint is pretty easy to deal with. Leave it alone and dont eat it, paint over it, or If it bothers you, remove it. Lead paint does nto hurt you unless you eat it. If you are concerned that your children may chew on the radiators or woodwork, then strip them. It is no big deal.
Aesbestos insulation on pipes is also no big deal. Unless you inhale clouds of the dust for years and years it does nto hurt you and it was an execellent material. However very few houses have aesbestos insulation on the pipes anymore. If you do and it concerns you can can just rmeove it. You need knife, a bag, safety goggles and a breathing mask. It takes an hour or two to remove it, except where it is inaccessible and there you do not need to worry about it.
What is the concern about steam heat? Do you dislike it because it is healthier, more efficient, and more comfortable than forced air? Some systems experience banging if there is air in the pipes, but properly maintained, it works great.
What is your basis to say that the value of those houses is currently going down? I amnot sure that is true right now. It may be true, but then you are nto paying much for them to begin with. You do not buy an old house as an investment, you buy one becuase you love them and want a unique and charming home. I will agree that as an investment, old houses are a poor choice. In fact, houses in general are a poor choice for investing. If investing is your primary goal in life, live in an apartment and invest where you will see better returns and less ongoing expense than real estate.
You must balance the risks of any endeavor with the quality of life and type fo lifestyle that you choose for you and your family. Every single day every single minute you make such choices. If you want to avoid endangering your family, then never ever allow them to travel by car. That is much more dangerous than living in I.V. Be sure to home school all of your kids since schools can be dangerous places. You should also probably move to a rmeote area of the UP if you are going to try to avoid endangering your family. Have you ever driven anyehere with your family when you are tired? Horridly dangerous. Certainly you do not smoke aruond your family if you smoke, that is also terrible endangerment.
Yes living in Downtown Detroit is more dangerous than living in Grosse Ile. (But then for that matter, so is living in Birmnigham). The question for you to decide is whether living in a stunning historic home is owrth the added risk and the steps that you have to take to help ensure the safety of your family?
While you are correct that the memories of the good old days ar ein the past, the good new days are right now. Every family must decide what kind of memories they want to build for their family. For some the correct answer is memories of a bland and mundane life in the suburbs and a constant attempt to eliminate all risk or danger. For others, including me, it is to fill their lives with unique experiences, teach them to appreciate history, acrhitecutre and the value of hard work. Teach them that taking calulated risks can be rewarding.
For some families, I.V. may be the just right choice. For others simply too scary. For us, it was not the right choice at the time, but it certianly may be for others.
By the way OP if you do move to Detroit, there are several threads around on security. They have some execellent ideas. You may want to find them and consider the ideas. I think that the threads are in the "House" section. I think tha tthe best advice is to get together with your neighbors and work together to help keep each other safe. However there are a lot of good ideas.
Old houses are great, and usually better built than new houses. INdian Villiage is a neat community. the school and safety issues can be dealt with. Shopping can be dealt with. My biggest concern was literally where will the kids play and hang out? That and the fact that I wanted to live in trees and have water for them to play in becuase we had already done the Indian Villiage lifestyle for nine years and it was time for something different. Btut for those two things and the opportunity that arose, we very likely would have wond up in Indian Villiage or Boston Edison. Occaisionally, I regret that we did not, especially when I am driving to Detroit for work, or like today, when I am suddenly handed hockey tickets and have to figure out how to get my kids up here to go to the game with me. It woudl be nice to live right in the city sometimes.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 03-09-2011 at 01:02 PM..
Rarely have problems.
Almost every home is occupied.
Children attend a very nice private school with a few minor problems.
Doesn't appear I'm missing anything.
Wish full thinking if you believe your property value will increase.
The city is now selling the abandoned homes in groups of
hundreds, but no takers.
Don't forget to turn the lights out.
Being from South Central L.A. lemme tell you. No one breaks into your home there... Their too scared of breaking into a badass' home and being clubbed to death. This whole security thing is just what people well off have to face. Also my home sold at 7,500, a year later for 35,000, i bought mine for 85K. Prices are going up if youre willing to tuff it out.
Again, being from Los Angeles, even South Central, a home with 2 bedrooms go for 230K, that makes everyone in South Central on par with people from Grosse Pointe here, its not the income that make a good place to live, its the people.
I believe in areas in Detroit, Mexican-town, IV, PW, BE, if not I wouldnt be here.
I realize that I am responding to the OP 10 years later. Much has changed in Detroit since 2011. Due to aggressive marketing and cheap, big houses, Detroit has become a "cool" city for young, white single professionals and young families.
I live in Indian Village. While I love the house, I have never warmed to the neighborhood. Here is what realtors won't tell you.
1. Indian Village is located on the direct route between the Chrysler Plant and I-75. If you live near the main road running from Chrysler through IV, be prepared for damaged roads, huge haulers 24/7, rumbling noise, shifting paintings on the wall, and traffic danger. City planners recently decided to narrow Kercheval, remove a traffic lane, and replace it with bike lanes and parking spots that extend far into the street. This was an incredibly short sighted and STUPID move.
2. Indian Village will always be vulnerable to crime. It is on a grid between two major thoroughfares, Jefferson and Mack Avenues. Entry and egress to the neighborhood are a piece of cake. Residents are not required to pay HIVA dues or for the security patrol. Many simply do not pay their fair share for security. Previous discussions on gating IV have split the neighborhood, caused dissension, and ultimately fail. If you buy here, you must IMMEDIATELY invest in a state of the art security system. Home invasions and armed street robberies are relatively rare, but not unheard of.
3. IV is an national historic district, with extremely strict rules for altering the exterior of your home. NOTHING you do to your property will go unnoticed. The IV Association is very aggressive about enforcement. Be prepared for this. The Historic District Commission and the City of Detroit will all be heavily involved in any of your major renovation plans.
4. While many IV residents are lovely people, there is a small group of unpleasant, nosey, gossipy, bullying, self appointed neighborhood watchdogs. You will learn to quickly identify them. Oddly, some of the most strident "enforcers" are not exactly stellar when it comes to keeping up their own properties. If you value your privacy, keep a low profile. "Close knit" communities are always a double edged sword.
5. Carpetbaggers and out of town speculators descend upon IV during economic downturns. House flipping happens-a lot. Property values are completely beholden to the economy. You may not always know who owns the house next door. Until recently, a number of homes sat empty for years. This has improved over the past few years and there are now few abandoned homes.
6. If you truly want diversity, there is increasingly less of it in IV. While the neighborhood is gay friendly and (now) kid friendly, current skyrocketing home prices have resulted in majority white home buyers.
7. Sure, The Waldorf School is fine for now, but schools may be a problem as your kids get older. They WILL have to commute to another school district.
8. If you don't volunteer, be prepared to be asked repeatedly to open your home for two days to the annual Home and Garden Tour. I. Mean. Repeatedly.
9. You OR your guests cannot safely park your car on the street (or even in your driveway) overnight. EVER.
10. Why do I stay, you ask? I'm not. I'm moving as I write these words.
Last edited by Charlotte P.; 06-17-2021 at 03:32 PM..
I realize that I am responding to the OP 10 years later. Much has changed in Detroit since 2011. Due to aggressive marketing and cheap, big houses, Detroit has become a "cool" city for young, white single professionals and young families.
I live in Indian Village. While I love the house, I have never warmed to the neighborhood. Here is what realtors won't tell you.
1. Indian Village is located on the direct route between the Chrysler Plant and I-75. If you live near the main road running from Chrysler through IV, be prepared for damaged roads, huge haulers 24/7, rumbling noise, shifting paintings on the wall, and traffic danger. City planners recently decided to narrow Kercheval, remove a traffic lane, and replace it with bike lanes and parking spots that extend far into the street. This was an incredibly short sighted and STUPID move.
2. Indian Village will always be vulnerable to crime. It is on a grid between two major thoroughfares, Jefferson and Mack Avenues. Entry and egress to the neighborhood are a piece of cake. Residents are not required to pay HIVA dues or for the security patrol. Many simply do not pay their fair share for security. Previous discussions on gating IV have split the neighborhood, caused dissension, and ultimately fail. If you buy here, you must IMMEDIATELY invest in a state of the art security system. Home invasions and armed street robberies are relatively rare, but not unheard of.
3. IV is an national historic district, with extremely strict rules for altering the exterior of your home. NOTHING you do to your property will go unnoticed. The IV Association is very aggressive about enforcement. Be prepared for this. The Historic District Commission and the City of Detroit will all be heavily involved in any of your major renovation plans.
4. While many IV residents are lovely people, there is a small group of unpleasant, nosey, gossipy, bullying, self appointed neighborhood watchdogs. You will learn to quickly identify them. Oddly, some of the most strident "enforcers" are not exactly stellar when it comes to keeping up their own properties. If you value your privacy, keep a low profile. "Close knit" communities are always a double edged sword.
5. Carpetbaggers and out of town speculators descend upon IV during economic downturns. House flipping happens-a lot. Property values are completely beholden to the economy. You may not always know who owns the house next door. Until recently, a number of homes sat empty for years. This has improved over the past few years and there are now few abandoned homes.
6. If you truly want diversity, there is increasingly less of it in IV. While the neighborhood is gay friendly and (now) kid friendly, current skyrocketing home prices have resulted in majority white home buyers.
7. Sure, The Waldorf School is fine for now, but schools may be a problem as your kids get older. They WILL have to commute to another school district.
8. If you don't volunteer, be prepared to be asked repeatedly to open your home for two days to the annual Home and Garden Tour. I. Mean. Repeatedly.
9. You OR your guests cannot safely park your car on the street (or even in your driveway) overnight. EVER.
10. Why do I stay, you ask? I'm not. I'm moving as I write these words.
Well, thank you for giving Detroit a try, if we had more people like you Detroit would become a much better place. Thanks for giving the city a try. It didn't work out, but Detroit isn't for most people.
It is unfortunate that in this post, you did not provide much about the positives of your experiences or the nice attractive aspects of the neighborhood. All 10 points are negative. I guess you really are fed up and ready to go! If you are still checking this thread, please provide some of the nice things about living in the neighborhood/city in general. This forum doesn't get much traffic and it is really, really rare that an actual Detroit city resident comes on this forum.
(I definitely don't think Indian Village should be gated - that's suburban type mentality. While I do think Detroit needs to adopt some aspects of the "suburban mentality" - like having higher expectations/standards of behavior and decorum of their fellow neighbors and their elected officials - I think gating is too far in the restrictive, exclusivity suburban mindset mode). About the lack luster security, Palmer Woods seems to have a good hired security patrol - I wonder how that compares to Indian Village.
IN neighborhoods like Indian Village, it is necessary for everyone to participate in the community. One of the things that makes a neighborhood unattractive to criminals, is a lot of people out walking around. They want nearly empty streets with no witnesses. One of the best things you can do in such a neighborhood is turn off the tele, grab a dog and a negihbor or two and go for a walk.
Those strict historic code enforcing people are also part of what keeps the neighborhood nice. As you are apparently aware, house flippers - meaning poor quality or mismatched cheap changes cause not only an individual housed but and entire neighborhood to lose its charm, and therefore its appeal to anyone but people looking for the cheapest possible living quarters. If the neighborhood homes lose their charm and start looking like tired subdivision wannabe homes, the neighborhood will go into decline. Those busy busybody code enforcing neighbors are keeping the neighborhood appealing and out of decline. They may be annoying at times and even ridiculous, but they are also holding things together for you. Rather than complaining about them, it works better to join them and push them a little bit more towards the reasonable side of things. Yes, you cant to get rid of couches on front porches and cars up on blocks in the front yard, You do not want people destroying the integrity and charm of historic homes, or the historic neighborhood becomes bland and unappealing. However, it goes too far when you start measuring someone's lawn so see if it is 3/4 inch too long, or to complain about them having a boar or RV alongside their garage or the wrong color trach cans.
For schools, there are good options available for high school. Waldorf is good for the lower levels. Jr. High is the biggest concern. There are some good choices available from private schools for Jr. High, but that is costly.
There is a lot to be said for living in a true old fashioned historic neighborhood, but there are obligations and risks that go with it. you have to be more proactive and less reliant on government to do things for you. You have to actively engage with your community, and you may even have to work to engage undercommented neighbors. Pick up trash, walk around in groups as frequently as possible. Work or site outside in your yard as much as possible, be the eyes and ears for law enforcement and for code enforcement (and the fire marshal). Push the government entities to do their job, or to do it better.
On the other hand you get to live ina very unique place with beautiful architecture and lots of history. If you make it so, you will get to live in an actual community rather than a bunch of people going from parking garage or lot to home garage and never really going outside and not getting to know the neighbors. IN IV you get the added benefit of proximity to downtown and mid-town and all they have to offer. It can be a magnificent lifestyle, but it takes an active and somewhat unique person to make it work.
If you want to be like a majority of people and spend most of your free time inside watching television while leaving the government to resolve any problems or potential problems, then this is a terrible experiment to try. Urban pocket living like this can work and can be wonderful, but it is a big commitment. You have to make it work.
Although responding to some of the comments in the more recent post, this is not a direct response to Charlotte N. this is directed to people who might be considering this lifestyle. We lives this lifestyle for nine years in another city, but very similar situation. It was terrific, but demanding. When we move to the area, we considered doing it again, but chose not to for reasons I noted previously. It was still a close call. It is a really great way to live. We wanted to do something different. Sometimes I regret that decision, but we chose another marvelous alternative so most of the time I am happy we did not go back to this lifestyle. .
We considered houses in IV and in Boston Edison. We decided that it was not an option for us for the following reasons:
. . .
8. It was pretty clear that many of our family members would not come visit us if we lived in Detroit.
I know this is an ancient post in this thread but I'm just now reading it and have to comment on point #8 above. This sounds like it would be a positive reason for me to think about moving to Indian Village.
Spent yesterday visiting Detroit for the day after not traveling there since before the pandemic and happened to drive through Indian Village. Still impressive (but not as much as Heritage Hill in Grand Rapids - but the Grosse Points have East Grand Rapids beat though,)
[quote=usroute10;61291707]Well, thank you for giving Detroit a try, if we had more people like you Detroit would become a much better place. Thanks for giving the city a try. It didn't work out, but Detroit isn't for most UOTE]
Coldjensens-There will always be Detroit cheerleaders and boosters. Cheer on. That is fine by me. Please do not make the assumption that just because I am moving, somehow Detroit "didn't work out." I am just leaving INDIAN VILLAGE.
The poster gmc--- is absolutely correct about the issues that IV homeowners constantly have to deal with. Anyone moving here must be prepared to spend tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in updates and upkeep. That is non-negotiable.
In modern times, Indian Village has never been a uniformly wealthy neighborhood. It remains firmly middle to upper middle class. That could be considered a positive, but the result is that not everybody keeps these wildly expensive to maintain houses up properly. The IVA makes a lot of noise and rattles their rusty saber, but there is little they can really do to enforce property upkeep. I do think that this problem is improving as houses pass the million dollar mark in sales. Gmc---was wrong about property values, though. There has never, ever, been a better time to sell than now. I'm not foolish enough to get emotionally attached to a house or a neighborhood, and even if I did love IV, I would never have a problem leaving.
As younger, more transient families move in, I have seen much more property turnover. Somebody gets an out of town transfer or promotion, or their kids reach school age, and off they go, sometimes in as little as six months. This transient generation FUNDAMENTALLY changes neighborhoods, and of course it's not exclusive to IV.
On a side note, IV really began to change around 2012, when a GHASTLY, troublemaking, and uniformly despised person moved in. It's been downhill in terms of neighborhood warmth and cohesiveness ever since. If they are determined enough, ONE person can ruin the entire vibe of a neighborhood.
There are downsides to living in every neighborhood. Unfortunately, most new homeowners do not discover the downsides of living in IV until AFTER they have bought and moved in. Wide, leafy streets and temptingly cheap, grand old houses can do that to you.
Positives? 1. Big, fancy, relatively cheap houses. There are a handful of spectacular showstoppers, (and a lot of mehh to butt ugly houses, too. Most fall somewhere in the middle.) 2. After years of paying way more than our fair share, property tax rates have come way down. (Unfortunately, home and auto insurance rates remain usuriously high.) 3. If you are a joiner who likes to get involved, there are all sorts of neighborhood clubs and organizations to join. If you are not, keep a low profile and don't list your contact info in the IVA directory. Just. Don't. 4. Proximity to downtown Detroit and The Pointes. A somewhat strong neighborhood association, that would be much stronger and result in a much safer neighborhood if EVERYONE paid their voluntary dues. IMO, that's about it for positives.
Last edited by Charlotte P.; 06-29-2021 at 09:29 AM..
Reason: Additional info
Used to know a guy who lived in the village; probably still does if still alive. He and his wife absolutely loved it; however, he was quite able to take care of any problems that might arise.
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