Detroit's 2010 population to be released this week. (Grand Rapids, Atlanta: neighborhoods, camps)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by terrence81

Well cities are changing. I can't speak for other east coast cities but I live in the DC area and I would say here most immigrants are not heading to the city. They're heading straight for the suburbs these days. There's only one neighborhood in DC that has a noticeable immigrant population. Immigrants want what other people want nice communities, good housing, and good schools. The suburbs of DC offer this at a much lower price and less crime than the city. Even in the inner ring suburbs you see more immigrant communities being gentrified and priced further out. If you a random immigrant in the DC area where they reside chances are it will be a particular suburb not the city.



Again I'm in VA so don't know the whole story but perhaps what you're witnessing is a dispersing of black population. Once upon a time one lived in their particular black neighborhood and stayed there now people live wherever they want for whatever reason.

In the DC area most black folks live in the city or the Maryland suburbs but more and more are feeling comfortable or getting opportunities in the VA burbs (not to mention there are a few black neighborhoods). When I first moved here I remember getting the business about living in VA versus MD but I shrug it off. Whateva Whateva I live where I want (South Park reference haha)!

So perhaps you're seeing black folks in more white or mixed neighborhoods not because of an increase in population but because they feel comfortable living elsewhere.

Side note: I've peeked at Detroit real estate listings and I'm jealous. Bring those prices to VA!

Immigrants who are poor will tend to go to areas that are the least expensive. To live in certain cities, like DC and SAN FRAN, maybe more expensive than many suburbs. In most ciities, however, things get more expensive the away from the city.

[Retroit]

What's wrong with these people? Don't they know Detroit is getting light rail? Don't they realize that new stadiums and casinos make a city more walkable and sustainable? And the grocery stores are so much better than the suburbs. How do they expect to take advantage of the new Marine Terminal way out in the suburbs? And crime only affects you if you are a criminal yourself, so why leave?
-------------
"Undercounting"? What a joke! Maybe the people that don't care to be counted are the same ones that don't care about their city. The denial is more troubling than the reality.

[terrence81]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Immigrants who are poor will tend to go to areas that are the least expensive. To live in certain cities, like DC and SAN FRAN, maybe more expensive than many suburbs. In most ciities, however, things get more expensive the away from the city.

Okay I used my own town as an example but you see this in Atlanta as well. Atlanta isn't as cheap as Detroit but its pretty darn cheap. In Atlanta you see most of the new immigrants heading to cheap suburban apartment complexes in Dekalb and Gwinnett counties.

One thing that DC and Atlanta have in common is that the inner city is gentrifying. They're both cities that have seen their populations declined in other censuses but now see their populations increasing as more and more want the city lifestyle without the city problems. Detroit may need to follow suit otherwise more and more people are going to leave, particularly if low income families can get a suburban home for the same or similar price as one in the burbs.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by fmax

Ruh-OH,

Population Drop Means Detroit's Casinos' Future Could Be a Gamble

"By state law, casinos can only exist in Detroit if the city has 800,000 people, and if they close, that's $150-million hole in the budget, not to mention the loss of thousands of jobs."

Population Drop Means Detroit's Casinos' Future Could Be a Gamble (http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/charlie_leduff/population-drop-means-detroit%27s-casinos-future-could-be-a-gamble-20110323-wpms - broken link)

Meh, the wording in the law itself states that's the criteria for casino development to be APPROVED. Since the casinos are alerady developed, this law has no relevance in Detroit's case.

The only problem that will come about is during licensing renewal time, and don't bet on the casinos letting their licenses expired.

[RHroadie]

Originally Posted by terrence81

One thing that DC and Atlanta have in common is that the inner city is gentrifying. They're both cities that have seen their populations declined in other censuses but now see their populations increasing as more and more want the city lifestyle without the city problems. Detroit may need to follow suit otherwise more and more people are going to leave, particularly if low income families can get a suburban home for the same or similar price as one in the burbs.

One thing DC and Atlana have is a thriving core business center. Detroit lost that long ago. Yes it has a business center but it long ago stopped forcing people to go in town to go to work. Detroit will have to do something no other large city has ever done grow its inner core thru population not business. Detroit area business will not go in town until the population forces them to go in town. They are too entrenched in the burbs.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by terrence81

Okay I used my own town as an example but you see this in Atlanta as well. Atlanta isn't as cheap as Detroit but its pretty darn cheap. In Atlanta you see most of the new immigrants heading to cheap suburban apartment complexes in Dekalb and Gwinnett counties.

One thing that DC and Atlanta have in common is that the inner city is gentrifying. They're both cities that have seen their populations declined in other censuses but now see their populations increasing as more and more want the city lifestyle without the city problems. Detroit may need to follow suit otherwise more and more people are going to leave, particularly if low income families can get a suburban home for the same or similar price as one in the burbs.

I want you to look at this list and where Detroit is on the list and how those at the bottom of this list all have declining or stagnant populations. Indianapolis is an exception because of its special government relationship with Marion county: Now look at those at the top of the list and tell me what happens to the population totals of those cities if you remove the foreign born.

Place Ranking — Percent of Population that is Foreign Born
Total Population

Rank Place Percent
1 Miami city, FL 60.6
2 Santa Ana city, CA 48.4
3 Los Angeles city, CA 41.3
4 Anaheim city, CA 40.3
5 San Francisco city, CA 36.7
6 San Jose city, CA 36.5
7 New York city, NY 36.0
8 Long Beach city, CA 30.9
9 Houston city, TX 28.1
10 San Diego city, CA 27.9
11 Oakland city, CA 27.1 B
12 Boston city, MA 27.0
13 Dallas city, TX 26.5
14 Sacramento city, CA 26.4
15 Honolulu CDP, HI 25.5
16 El Paso city, TX 24.9 17
17 Stockton city, CA 24.2
18 Riverside city, CA 23.9
19 Fresno city, CA 22.7
20 Chicago city, IL 22.6
21 Newark city, NJ 22.4
22 Phoenix city, AZ 21.1
22 Las Vegas city, NV 21.1
24 Denver city, CO 20.2
25 Austin city, TX 19.6
26 Aurora city, CO 17.7
27 Minneapolis city, MN 17.6
28 Seattle city, WA 17.2
29 Arlington city, TX 16.6
30 St. Paul city, MN 16.3
31 Fort Worth city, TX 15.6
32 Washington city, DC 14.6
33 Tampa city, FL 14.0
34 Tucson city, AZ 13.8
35 Bakersfield city, CA 13.4
36 Portland city, OR 12.9
37 Mesa city, AZ 12.8
38 Raleigh city, NC 12.3
39 Charlotte city, NC 12.0
40 San Antonio city, TX 11.2
41 Oklahoma City city, OK 10.5
42 Albuquerque city, NM 10.0
42 Philadelphia city, PA 10.0
44 Milwaukee city, WI 9.5
45 Colorado Springs city, CO 9.4
46 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 9.0
47 Jacksonville city, FL 8.5
48 Wichita city, KS 8.2
49 Columbus city, OH 8.1
50 Anchorage municipality, AK 8.0
51 Lexington-Fayette, KY 7.8
52 Cleveland city, OH 7.6
53 Pittsburgh city, PA 7.3
54 Omaha city, NE 6.7
55 Detroit city, MI 6.4
56 Atlanta city, GA 6.3
56 Virginia Beach city, VA 6.3
58 Cincinnati city, OH 6.2
59 Baltimore city, MD 6.1
59 Tulsa city, OK 6.1
61 Corpus Christi city, TX 5.9
62 Kansas City city, MO 5.8
63 St. Louis city, MO 5.7
64 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 4.9
65 Buffalo city, NY 4.7
66 Memphis city, TN 4.2
67 New Orleans city, LA 3.4
68 Louisville city, KY 3.2
68 Toledo city, OH 3.2

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, American Community Survey

[us66]

Originally Posted by terrence81

Well by well paid I mean for someone that lives in a poor neighborhood. I don't know how much Detroit was paying but here in the DC area they were paying $20 an hour and in Georgia $11 an hour. For an educated professional that's not a lot but for anyone without a degree that's pretty good money. Shucks I know folks with master's degree making less than that in these days and times.

All I meant by that was that if I were the census taker, working a temp job with no chance whatsoever of permanent employment, I wouldn't worry too much about leaving no stone unturned as I sought to count uncounted citizens.

[fmax]

The census has been taking place for over 200 years.

Inversely, the arguments presented for under-counting can be applied the same way to over-counting. Perhaps a census taker decided to skip walking down a particular street and arbitrarily assigned 4 people to a house.

The bottom line, the fix is in. Bing said the number has to be revised to get the Foreign Aid.

313weather,

And of course you are exactly correct. You testify to the corruption of the City Government in Detroit.

[fmax]

Census takers start at: $16.50/hour

Local Census Office Map - 2010 Census Jobs

[terrence81]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

I want you to look at this list and where Detroit is on the list and how those at the bottom of this list all have declining or stagnant populations. Indianapolis is an exception because of its special government relationship with Marion county: Now look at those at the top of the list and tell me what happens to the population totals of those cities if you remove the foreign born.

Place Ranking — Percent of Population that is Foreign Born
Total Population

Rank Place Percent
1 Miami city, FL 60.6
2 Santa Ana city, CA 48.4
3 Los Angeles city, CA 41.3
4 Anaheim city, CA 40.3
5 San Francisco city, CA 36.7
6 San Jose city, CA 36.5
7 New York city, NY 36.0
8 Long Beach city, CA 30.9
9 Houston city, TX 28.1
10 San Diego city, CA 27.9
11 Oakland city, CA 27.1 B
12 Boston city, MA 27.0
13 Dallas city, TX 26.5
14 Sacramento city, CA 26.4
15 Honolulu CDP, HI 25.5
16 El Paso city, TX 24.9 17
17 Stockton city, CA 24.2
18 Riverside city, CA 23.9
19 Fresno city, CA 22.7
20 Chicago city, IL 22.6
21 Newark city, NJ 22.4
22 Phoenix city, AZ 21.1
22 Las Vegas city, NV 21.1
24 Denver city, CO 20.2
25 Austin city, TX 19.6
26 Aurora city, CO 17.7
27 Minneapolis city, MN 17.6
28 Seattle city, WA 17.2
29 Arlington city, TX 16.6
30 St. Paul city, MN 16.3
31 Fort Worth city, TX 15.6
32 Washington city, DC 14.6
33 Tampa city, FL 14.0
34 Tucson city, AZ 13.8
35 Bakersfield city, CA 13.4
36 Portland city, OR 12.9
37 Mesa city, AZ 12.8
38 Raleigh city, NC 12.3
39 Charlotte city, NC 12.0
40 San Antonio city, TX 11.2
41 Oklahoma City city, OK 10.5
42 Albuquerque city, NM 10.0
42 Philadelphia city, PA 10.0
44 Milwaukee city, WI 9.5
45 Colorado Springs city, CO 9.4
46 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 9.0
47 Jacksonville city, FL 8.5
48 Wichita city, KS 8.2
49 Columbus city, OH 8.1
50 Anchorage municipality, AK 8.0
51 Lexington-Fayette, KY 7.8
52 Cleveland city, OH 7.6
53 Pittsburgh city, PA 7.3
54 Omaha city, NE 6.7
55 Detroit city, MI 6.4
56 Atlanta city, GA 6.3
56 Virginia Beach city, VA 6.3
58 Cincinnati city, OH 6.2
59 Baltimore city, MD 6.1
59 Tulsa city, OK 6.1
61 Corpus Christi city, TX 5.9
62 Kansas City city, MO 5.8
63 St. Louis city, MO 5.7
64 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 4.9
65 Buffalo city, NY 4.7
66 Memphis city, TN 4.2
67 New Orleans city, LA 3.4
68 Louisville city, KY 3.2
68 Toledo city, OH 3.2

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, American Community Survey

Ah but look at the cities that are below Detroit. Atlanta is growing by leaps and bounds. Virginia Beach is doing well. Baltimore has lost people in the past decade but its still gentrifying and improving. I'm surprised about New Orleans though.