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Old 05-11-2011, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,053 posts, read 4,374,999 times
Reputation: 699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
Another possible suggestion is that many major companies simply wouldn't put a dime in Detroit after the 1967 riots. I wouldn't necessarily call that a disinvestment, but rather a decision not to invest. As the city emptied out, as its people grew progressively poorer, and as crime increased, quite a few of these retailers may have then made a business decision to shutter their shops.

Also, in most parts of the country, outlets built in the '60s were closed a long time ago to make way for newer outlets in flashier malls/power centers, etc. (many of which were also closed again as the chains renewed their retail outlets and their retail strategies). This may have happened in Detroit as well, with outlets closing during the '70s, the '80s, and the '90s, and with no plan to replace them because it was felt that the city was too poor (or would become too poor) to merit new investment.

Long story short, my suspicion is that these companies did what all sensible companies do: they followed the money (in this case, to the neighboring cities/suburbs).

This is just a suggestion; I'm not trying to pick a fight here. The riots did do a number on Detroit, though. It's impossible to deny that.
I understand what you are saying but it still does not dismiss the fact that the biggest issue is Detroit being majority black, more than most major cities % wise and white people in this area promoting this "Detroit= all black= bad" attitude for a very long time. If I'm not mistaken before the riots and well after Detroit has always had a sizable affluent black population. Black people who could afford the same things as many whites and even more than plenty white people. So I don't agree with that "Detroit is too poor" theory. 313 Weather says thats the reason, but if it is why is years ago companies were still leaving Detroit, despite Detroit still having plenty of affluent neighborhoods. Its not like there is a Kroger near Palmer Woods. Speaking of that Kroger, it that is the case, why put a Kroger in the 7mile and Gratiot area rather than Indian Village or Palmer Woods? I just don't buy it
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis area, MN
12 posts, read 11,166 times
Reputation: 12
There's no doubt in my mind that Baghdad is a much worse city than Detroit, and I've never been to either place.

I think a good way to improve Detroit is if middle class / rich people started moving into the best parts of it, fixing it up etc. but that's not practical in the short run, not really.

I've heard it mentioned on the radio that something like 45% of Detroiters are illiterate, I'm not sure what the exact measurement was though.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:22 AM
 
1,395 posts, read 2,506,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitlove View Post
I understand what you are saying but it still does not dismiss the fact that the biggest issue is Detroit being majority black, more than most major cities % wise and white people in this area promoting this "Detroit= all black= bad" attitude for a very long time. If I'm not mistaken before the riots and well after Detroit has always had a sizable affluent black population. Black people who could afford the same things as many whites and even more than plenty white people. So I don't agree with that "Detroit is too poor" theory. 313 Weather says thats the reason, but if it is why is years ago companies were still leaving Detroit, despite Detroit still having plenty of affluent neighborhoods. Its not like there is a Kroger near Palmer Woods. Speaking of that Kroger, it that is the case, why put a Kroger in the 7mile and Gratiot area rather than Indian Village or Palmer Woods? I just don't buy it
But please do check the quote that you excerpted from the article that you posted:

"Detroit Has Money. Detroit may be a very poor city, but with so many people in it, there are still a significant number of folks with money living inside the city limits. There are 18,140 households in Detroit with income over $100,000 per year. Milwaukee, hardly a basket case, has 19,297. Upscale Minneapolis only has 29,460, a mere 10,000 household gap vs. Detroit in high earning households. Now both of these cities are smaller (Minneapolis much smaller) and so are proportionately much richer. But the point is that in total, there actually are a material number of households in the city of Detroit with significant incomes."

There may be an apparently high number of wealthy black households in absolute terms, but if those wealthy households are significantly outnumbered by poor households and the number of poor households is not dropping or, worse yet, is increasing relative to the number of wealthy households, then companies won't be incentivized to invest in Detroit. Honestly, I don't think that it is much more complicated than that. Without large-scale gentrification like what has happened in parts of D.C., Philadelphia and Chicago, you won't see a major move by big money to invest in the city and build big supermarkets and the like.

This has less to do with race than it does with socio-economic status. If the black community were suddenly to become wildly prosperous, then companies would be falling all over themselves to win their business by bringing stores and stuff to them instead of making them go to their stores and stuff. You'll have to excuse me if I'm rambling a bit; it's late and I'm tired.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:49 AM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,694,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
BThere may be an apparently high number of wealthy black households in absolute terms, but if those wealthy households are significantly outnumbered by poor households and the number of poor households is not dropping or, worse yet, is increasing relative to the number of wealthy households, then companies won't be incentivized to invest in Detroit. Honestly, I don't think that it is much more complicated than that. Without large-scale gentrification like what has happened in parts of D.C., Philadelphia and Chicago, you won't see a major move by big money to invest in the city and build big supermarkets and the like.

This has less to do with race than it does with socio-economic status. If the black community were suddenly to become wildly prosperous, then companies would be falling all over themselves to win their business by bringing stores and stuff to them instead of making them go to their stores and stuff. You'll have to excuse me if I'm rambling a bit; it's late and I'm tired.
You hit the nail right on the head.

The question with Detroit however is where exactly do we start with our gentrification. Cities like Philadelpdia, DC and Chicago were never completely abandoned by their middle income tax base, their city centers weren't completely abandoned by local companies and their economies were diverse enough where the health of their city wasn't dependent on the health of one industry (except for DC, which has the Federal Government, but that's an entirely unique case). Detroit basically has to start all over because we have none of those things. And it adds insult to injury that we still haven't hit rock bottom in terms of decline (thus a continued decline in wealth and tax revenue).

And that's why I said poor people per capita. As you said Detroit's poor population heavily outnumbers its wealthier population, and this disproportion isn't as apparent to the same extent in any other major city. Companies aren't going to open establishments in a place that's largely poor because people who are desperate and have nothing to lose will be statistically more likely to steal their products. It doesn't matter if they're black, white purple, blue or orange.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:14 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,951 posts, read 19,384,242 times
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How the heck can someone who claims to be such an expert and advocate for the city not acknowledge the obvious and universally accepted fact that Detroit has a lot of poor people? smh

Detroitlove, I think you take things too personally. Just because a generalization made on a city of 700,000 people doesn't apply to you specifically doesn't mean that it is not valid.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,403,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
How the heck can someone who claims to be such an expert and advocate for the city not acknowledge the obvious and universally accepted fact that Detroit has a lot of poor people? smh

Detroitlove, I think you take things too personally. Just because a generalization made on a city of 700,000 people doesn't apply to you specifically doesn't mean that it is not valid.

I have yet to see any generalization applied to 700,000 people that has any validity at all.

You might be able to say a majority of the people, if you had something to base it on, but most geleralizations are neither valid nor well thought out. Generalization is the cornerstone of bias and bigotry.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,951 posts, read 19,384,242 times
Reputation: 25417
How is it "not valid, well thought out, bias, or bigotry" to see that Detroit has a lot of poor people?

"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." -Georg Hegel
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:37 PM
 
537 posts, read 816,157 times
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Detroit is hardly the worst city in the world. It's probably not even the worst city in America. It's pretty bad but it's not as bad as Camden, NJ or East St. Louis.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,053 posts, read 4,374,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
You hit the nail right on the head.

The question with Detroit however is where exactly do we start with our gentrification. Cities like Philadelpdia, DC and Chicago were never completely abandoned by their middle income tax base, their city centers weren't completely abandoned by local companies and their economies were diverse enough where the health of their city wasn't dependent on the health of one industry (except for DC, which has the Federal Government, but that's an entirely unique case). Detroit basically has to start all over because we have none of those things. And it adds insult to injury that we still haven't hit rock bottom in terms of decline (thus a continued decline in wealth and tax revenue).

And that's why I said poor people per capita. As you said Detroit's poor population heavily outnumbers its wealthier population, and this disproportion isn't as apparent to the same extent in any other major city. Companies aren't going to open establishments in a place that's largely poor because people who are desperate and have nothing to lose will be statistically more likely to steal their products. It doesn't matter if they're black, white purple, blue or orange.
if you think that Detroit being majority black has nothing to do with it, you need to wake up
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,053 posts, read 4,374,999 times
Reputation: 699
and last I checked Walmart basically targets poor/low income people
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