The Future of Grosse Pointe (Detroit, Dearborn: foreclosure, crime, lawyers)

[Hans64]

I was recently in Grosse Pointe after a 20 year absence (I no longer live in MI). It's charm is intact (beautiful streets and homes, lakeside setting) but some of the luster seems to have rubbed off. I saw lovely old homes in GPP that were empty and and seem to be falling into disrepair though I know this can be seen in Bloomfield as well. The business districts (Village and Hill) definitely don't feel as exclusive or upscale as they once did, though they are still nice enough. I'm interested to hear opinions on what the future of Grosse Pointe looks like. GP seems to me to be tied to Detroit proper in a way that Oakland County isn't. Will GP become newly desireable as Detroit slowly improves and stabilizes and GP is the closest upscale suburb or will GP decline to a lesser or greater extent. I think anyone would agree the housing stock is second to none in the Detroit area in terms of quality and charm (Birmingham, Royal Oak, Huntington Woods all have pockets of lovely large old homes but GP has street after street of them). Perhaps GP will go the way of Shaker Heights (Cleveland)--once a very upper crust WASP suburb now integrated, relatively stabile, with some very desireable areas and some decidedly less desireable ones. What do you think?

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by Hans64

I was recently in Grosse Pointe after a 20 year absence (I no longer live in MI). It's charm is intact (beautiful streets and homes, lakeside setting) but some of the luster seems to have rubbed off. I saw lovely old homes in GPP that were empty and and seem to be falling into disrepair though I know this can be seen in Bloomfield as well. The business districts (Village and Hill) definitely don't feel as exclusive or upscale as they once did, though they are still nice enough. I'm interested to hear opinions on what the future of Grosse Pointe looks like. GP seems to me to be tied to Detroit proper in a way that Oakland County isn't. Will GP become newly desireable as Detroit slowly improves and stabilizes and GP is the closest upscale suburb or will GP decline to a lesser or greater extent. I think anyone would agree the housing stock is second to none in the Detroit area in terms of quality and charm (Birmingham, Royal Oak, Huntington Woods all have pockets of lovely large old homes but GP has street after street of them). Perhaps GP will go the way of Shaker Heights (Cleveland)--once a very upper crust WASP suburb now integrated, relatively stabile, with some very desireable areas and some decidedly less desireable ones. What do you think?

Personal opinion, I don't think it's ever going to become terribly bad (as in not attractive or livable), but its prime is behind it.

Grosse Pointe is mostly filled with old wealth. Once the folks with that wealth have passed on, things will probably side downhill some. You can somewhat start to see that in parts of GPP closest to Detroit. Then also, it's very isolated from the other relatively wealthy areas (Northen Macomb, Oakland Counties), so that knocks down its desirably right there. Finally Grosse Pointe will likely be the next place in line to see an increase in crime outflowing from Detroit, granted even with the strong police force.

Yeah, Shaker Heights probably won't be too far off from what Grosse Pointe becomes in the future. Solidly middle class and not as ritzy. This is especially true for the areas closest to Detroit.

[ckhthankgod]

Wouldn't Harper Woods as it is now, be in line with what Shaker Heights is now?

[cariguy]

There is still young families buying houses and the schools are still relatively full. I have seen many of the foreclosure houses instead of going to seed actually be upgraded by the new owners. That is a sign that the Pointes are still healthy.

[Hans64]

In their current state, I would consider Harper Woods quite a few steps below Shaker Heights. Shaker still has an incredible housing stock that is at least as impressive as Grosse Pointe, though some parts of Shaker are in decline. Shaker still has prestige and there are a lot of doctors, lawyers, cultural and community leaders that reside there.

I'm glad that you report that young families are buying in the Pointes. I agree GP will probably always fall behind Oakland County in terms of wealth and desireability (the same was not true 25 years ago) but I think GP has the opportunity to be more diverse and perhaps more dynamic than the GP of past.

One pressure that has significantly impacted Shaker is the lack of business districts that limits tax revenues. Outside of a few small strip areas that have seen better days, there is no "downtown" Shaker Heights (the Shaker Square area is actually in Cleveland proper). I would say GP has a leg up by having their Village and Hill business districts. I don't know how the property taxes in GP compare to Shaker but Shaker is known for having very high taxes. The listing price of many Shaker homes seems like an incredible bargain, but once you look at the taxes you realize these are expensive homes indeed.

It will be interesting to see if the improvements in downtown Detroit will someday make the proximity of GP into a selling point (for GP) rather than a negative for some people. Not everyone is going to want to commute from Clarkston!

[us66]

The other thing really hurting GP compared to Oakland's upscale areas is how far away from Oakland County it is. The major nice shopping is in Oakland County (with some out on M-59 in central Macomb County) and GP is quite a drive away from the Oakland County edge city areas in rush hour. Some things are hard to come by in GP...there isn't even a movie theatre nearby, but if you want a Kroger or a dry cleaner, the choices are bewildering.

GP's proximity to downtown Detroit (and not being insanely far from Ford HQ in Dearborn) is nice, but downtown Detroit isn't the be all end all in the metro for jobs, and GP's non-central location is a liability.

Harper Woods vs. Shaker Heights: Maybe, in the best parts of HW, which are still more or less in good shape, but can you buy a house in Shaker Heights for $20K?

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Personal opinion, I don't think it's ever going to become terribly bad (as in not attractive or livable), but its prime is behind it.

Grosse Pointe is mostly filled with old wealth. Once the folks with that wealth have passed on, things will probably side downhill some. You can somewhat start to see that in parts of GPP closest to Detroit. Then also, it's very isolated from the other relatively wealthy areas (Northen Macomb, Oakland Counties), so that knocks down its desirably right there. Finally Grosse Pointe will likely be the next place in line to see an increase in crime outflowing from Detroit, granted even with the strong police force.

Yeah, Shaker Heights probably won't be too far off from what Grosse Pointe becomes in the future. Solidly middle class and not as ritzy. This is especially true for the areas closest to Detroit.

Detroit doesn't have the economy to support the Pointes like it did in the past. Generational wealth will last only for so long. As the older money grows older, the younger generation will have to seek their fortunes outside of Michigan likely.

Grosse Pointe was protected for so long by the sheer cost of entry. Now that this exclusivity is gone (except the Shores perhaps) it will be on a slow decline as the power base moves to Oakland County, Bloomfield, Birmingham.

Grosse Pointe was always only about the money and now that that is gone, so too is the extreme prestige it had in the 80's and 90's.

[Hans64]

Originally Posted by GreyDay

Detroit doesn't have the economy to support the Pointes like it did in the past. Generational wealth will last only for so long. As the older money grows older, the younger generation will have to seek their fortunes outside of Michigan likely.

Grosse Pointe was protected for so long by the sheer cost of entry. Now that this exclusivity is gone (except the Shores perhaps) it will be on a slow decline as the power base moves to Oakland County, Bloomfield, Birmingham.

Grosse Pointe was always only about the money and now that that is gone, so too is the extreme prestige it had in the 80's and 90's.

I attended a private college in Michigan that was fed into heavily by Grosse Pointe as well as Birmingham, Bloomfield. Most of my college friends from GP now live in Oakland County (if they live in MI at all).

[GreyDay]

I went to a small prep school in Grosse Pointe. Most of my class is now in NY, DC, SF or Texas.

[ForStarters]

Well, contrary to everyone else, I don't see the Pointes sliding downhill. Sure, some of the extreme wealth has dissipated, but I think the Pointes are well-positioned for the future. First, the housing stock is top notch. Nothing in Oakland County even holds a candle to the history of the Pointes. Then, there's the fact that the Pointes are along the water. Even though most people don't have waterfront lots, everyone drives Lake Shore and there's really nothing like that anywhere else in the region.

Also, I feel like the Pointes have established a certain aura that cannot be easily overcome. While they may not be as prestigious as they once were, they are different than many of the "throw away" suburbs of Oakland County. Let's face it, Oakland County has seen many 'burbs rise to fame, then be disposed of as soon as something better was built a few miles away. For the most part, the Pointes have continuously stood the test of time as a prestigious place to live.

Lastly, I think the Pointes' proximity to downtown Detroit is a major geographic advantage going forward. If things continue to trend in the direction I expect, major job growth will occur in the city center. Places like Birmingham may end up being far removed and less desirable. The Pointes are relatively dense and could be accessible via bus to a Jefferson Ave rail line.

For the record, there are 2 Kroger stores in the Pointes, as well as several dry cleaners.