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Old 03-02-2012, 09:53 AM
 
530 posts, read 1,550,980 times
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M313 has it right....

"City Council are full of idiots who couldn't maintain a cornfield".


Detroit has become an unmaintained cornfield. Go and look.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:36 AM
 
12 posts, read 23,320 times
Reputation: 21
Default No role, eh?

I find it difficult to believe that every registered voter in the city of Detroit is not somewhat to blame for the current condition of the city.......
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:27 AM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,737,180 times
Reputation: 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Blow 81 View Post
I find it difficult to believe that every registered voter in the city of Detroit is not somewhat to blame for the current condition of the city.......
I could say for same for every citizen in the Michigan (if you use the vague term "somewhat").
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,764,742 times
Reputation: 39453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Blow 81 View Post
I find it difficult to believe that every registered voter in the city of Detroit is not somewhat to blame for the current condition of the city.......
Waht about the unregistered voters? Do they get out of blame by being too lazy to even register?
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Keystone State
1,765 posts, read 2,196,135 times
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Sorry to be a buttinsky...As an outsider looking in I've seen a lot of blame being thrown around in this forum and not too many real solutions.
The Blame Game has never resolved problems it only adds to existing and future issues, so if this is happening outside these forum walls nothing will ever get fixed in Detroit. Someone needs to take the "Bull By The Horns" and get things done for real...

As a future resident I feel for your city and hope things turn around for Detroit and Michigan as a whole...


Just my personal observation and opinion, no disrespect intended at all...
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,764,742 times
Reputation: 39453
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiluha View Post
Sorry to be a buttinsky...As an outsider looking in I've seen a lot of blame being thrown around in this forum and not too many real solutions.
The Blame Game has never resolved problems it only adds to existing and future issues, so if this is happening outside these forum walls nothing will ever get fixed in Detroit. Someone needs to take the "Bull By The Horns" and get things done for real...

As a future resident I feel for your city and hope things turn around for Detroit and Michigan as a whole...


Just my personal observation and opinion, no disrespect intended at all...
You have to identify the cause of the problem before you can fix it. Otherwise your fixing effort just run up agaisnt the continued cause. Besides it is very difficult to fix things if voters will not vote for changes.Of course i have not heard of anyone interested in running who will make more changes than Bing is trying to make.It is easy to say "Go take action to fix things" It is hard to answer the response "By doing what exactly?"
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Keystone State
1,765 posts, read 2,196,135 times
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Definitely! Identification of the problems are absolutely essential to begin the process...Once the problems are identified one has to move on to the fixes, it is sometimes too easy to stay in the blame game and not move forward. Also, it can be a difficult task to identify the real problems...

Maybe an Emergency Manager might help get the ball rolling, maybe not, but at least something different would have been attempted.

I'm sure you've heard the saying: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ~Albert Einstein

Growing up in NYC we've experienced some really, really rough times and things have turned around for the better. Of course it took time, but with a combination of strong leadership and a strong and fed up community things did turn around...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
You have to identify the cause of the problem before you can fix it. Otherwise your fixing effort just run up agaisnt the continued cause. Besides it is very difficult to fix things if voters will not vote for changes.Of course i have not heard of anyone interested in running who will make more changes than Bing is trying to make.It is easy to say "Go take action to fix things" It is hard to answer the response "By doing what exactly?"
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:27 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,550,980 times
Reputation: 215
CJ's comment.... "You have to identify the cause of the problem before you can fix it."

Everyone has a different perception of the problem. A list of 'problems' must be generated and organized. Once the 'problem' is identified an action team can be assembled to take care of the problem.

Last edited by fmax; 03-06-2012 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,764,742 times
Reputation: 39453
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmax View Post
CJ's comment.... "You have to identify the cause of the problem before you can fix it."

Everyone has a different perception of the problem. A list of 'problems' must be generated and organized. Once the 'problem' is identified an action team can be assembled to take care of the problem.
Except that here, one of the problems will be the action team. First it will have a required racial make up, residency, age, income limititaions to particpate int he comittee. Second it will be friends donors or people known to whomever is in charge of selecting the action committee. Third the members will not get along and will just whine and complain and call each other names for their inability to get along or accomplish anything. Qualifications, drive, ability will end up getting squeezed out of the selection process. In the end the action committee will spend a lot of money, create some new problems, and then disband in a battlefield of hurled blame.

Detroit leadership is dysfunctional. They cannot keep focus on the problem. They generally get very little accomplished and most of what gets done, is done by private organizations set up to improve Detroit.

The bottome line is Detroit cannot be fixed. It must be re-started. Bankruptcy is inevitable. During the Bankruptcy, they need to fire pretty much every person involved in Government and hopefully start over. The attitude of "what can I get from the city?" rather than "what can I do for the city?" is too ingrained in the workforce and has basically overcome every element of the City government. There are some exceptions and some really great people, but the prevailing attitutde is "get some for me. "

Once they re-invent the leadership, eschew their debts and dis-incoroporte a third or more of the geographic area of the city, then they can start to rebuild.

Until then they can make small improvements get little sputters going here and there, but it will not get the City going again except in specific places. They simply cannot get out of the hole unless they eliminate the hole altogether.

Detroit needs an EFM, Detroit needs bankruptcy. Detroit needs entirely new leadership and a mostly new city workforce. The problem is that the selection of an EFM will get tained by politics, cronyism, racism, or whatever else. If they could find a qualified person willing to serve and actually ensure that they obtained enough authority to accomplish things, it would be wonderful. The City will still have to go through Bankruptcy, but an EFM can position the city to go genetly into bankrupcty and hopefully position the city to rise out of BK smoothly and quickly.

The problme is there there will be a great deal of howling, swearing and sabre rattling during the process. Unions will spit fire. various entitlement recipeints will scream and complain. The media will attack the EFM relentlessly. Nothing the EFM does will have immediate tangible positive results. They wil ahve to cut services and programs, like mad. Reduce workforce, privitize, break the City's pormises and let some areas of the City go entirely. None of this will be popular. Things like closing or selling Belle Isle or charging a toll will make people furiors and will not show an immediate benefit. That city will still be insolvent, only less so.

However it can, and probably will happen. Hopefully Detroit wil come out of the bankruptcy stronger and with better leadership than it has had in the past 40 or more years.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:32 AM
 
1,149 posts, read 1,590,261 times
Reputation: 1403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Blow 81 View Post
don't forget 60 + years of DEMOCRATS in power......
This is very true, but it's not just that they were Democrats. 60+ years of any particular party breeds a culture of corruption and entitlement.

Detroit is too far gone. The system is too corrupt. For whatever the emergency manager signifies, at the very least an outside force taking a wrecking ball to the established system could have long-term positive results. Corruption generally is not a problem in America, so it's amazing to me that it's allowed to go on so endemically in cities like Chicago and Detroit.
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