Would you agree that Detroit is a failed city? (Southfield: buy, bankrupt)

[Leopard2]

Detroit Auto Workers Busted on the Job Drinking Beer & Smoking Pot on Break.flv - YouTube

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Leopard2

Detroit Auto Workers Busted on the Job Drinking Beer & Smoking Pot on Break.flv - YouTube

This isn't representative of the majority of auto workers.

[zthatzmanz28]

Not sure what good any concensus would do. Whether or not Detroit is a failed city, a broken city, or a city with dreams, is all inconsequential.
Because there will never be majority agreement on the city's current condition NOR will people ever come to agreement with WHAT has to be done to keep the city alive.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The last decade showed a clear pattern all across America of large numbers of African Americans moving from central cities to the suburbs. about 200,000 African American left the city of Chicago. Even the black mecca of Atlanta saw a drop in its African American population. Oakland, California, Cleveland…..it was a national trend and phenomenon. This phenomenon, I believe, was largely the result of the housing bubble phenomenon, which opened up suburban opportunities for African Americans like never before.

I point this out because Detroit’s population losses the last decade was more to do with something national than something local. People argue that things are so bad in Detroit that there was a massive exodus to the suburbs. Well, things must have also been terrible in Chicago and all the other major and minor cities that witnessed a large percentage of African Americans moving to the suburbs. Also, there was a large shift of people from inner ring suburbs to exurbs as well (these are the people who sold their homes, many of them, to African Americans from the principle cities); hence, can we argue equally that things were so bad in inner ring suburbs too? Low interest loans, no money down, no income verification, subprime loans, worked in concert in shifting people outward from their previous situation.

Another issue that I keep reminding people of is that during the 2000 census there was a massive local effort to get people counted, by the city of Detroit. Funding is tied to population count and previous mayors put great effort in getting as many people counted as possible. Dave Bing failed to do that. Secondly, the 2000 official enumeration count for the city of Detroit was adjusted upward about 54,000 people as a result of a suit filed by the City of Detroit, along with other cities, claiming minority undercounts. The 2010 census count was not adjusted. If it was adjusted based upon the same formula of last time, the city’s population would have been adjusted up to near 800,000. Hence, the fact that there was no adjustment, like last time, and no massive get out the count effort, like last time, could account to as much as a 100,000 count discrepancy, as there is a significant margin for error in the enumeration process.

People are headline huggers. They don’t dig for better understanding. Instead, they just use headlines to back the narrative that they are emotionally invested in. If there was no housing bubble the last decade and if an effort was made to get out the count and there was also an adjustment like the previous decade, I believe Detroit’s population count would be around 825,000, down from 954,000 and most cities in many of the other cities in the USA would not have lost such a large percent of African Americans either.

The way that Detroit problems are being characterized, erroneously, is leading many residents to give up hope on the city and to start to believe the city is as bad and hopeless like people portray it to be, based upon what transpired the last decade. People need to know that what happened last decade was not endemic to Detroit, but that African Americans all across the country moved to the suburbs from the city. They need to understand that the housing bubble facilitated this shift and they need to understand that there was no adjustment to the census tally and that the mayor did not push an effort to get everyone counted. That is why Detroit came out looking the way it did in headlines all across America, as having lost a quarter of its population.

There is too much observation without explanation. People don't seem to want to use events of the past to explain anything in the present. People seem hell bent on Detroit being seen as a failure born from incompetence, corruption and citizens who, like children, don't know whats best for them and need others to make such decisions for them......which has a lot to do with the demographics of the city.

I was ready to rep you after reading the first paragraph. But I can't right now

[LookinForMayberry]

Originally Posted by tom.hall50

I was curious as to what does everybody thinks?!

There are no failed cities, only cities of failures. Don't give up on any of them, failing is necessary for the opportunities it brings.

[PosterExtraordinaire]

Originally Posted by SadieMirsade

We have to have some sort of value system.
You'd call that "opinions".
We've all made our own mistakes, but ultimately, we all acknowledge that there is something inherently wrong with our society.
We don't have very many role models? Do we?

And WHY shouldn't somebody, anybody, come up to you and suggest another way of doing things?
Shouldn't we all be looking out for each other?

I think that with the economic upheavals that are ahead of us, the family is our only remaining safety-net. That is why I keep driving the point that we have to be accountable to our families, and we have to treat our families as a community, we have to create functional families if we are to survive the difficult times. The gov'ts are up to their ears in debt. There is no free money left.
There is no place for anger and finger pointing. Only collected calm and stoicism can get us over this huge bump ahead of us.

Funny because you guys started the finger pointing. What do you think it means when you say Detroit failed and needs intervention? Is that not finger pointing? I don't remember someone from Detroit pointing the finger the other way and saying you failed and your community needs intervention. A lot of blame can be spread around, you do you and I'll do me.

As to the family, I got my kids. They're the only 2 people I care about in this world. I don't care what you do, I don't care about your family, I don't care if you make it big or are on the bread line.

There, is that PG enough for you YAC?

[PosterExtraordinaire]

Anyone hurting for gas money, I saw 349 advertised on some station on woodward in Highland Park. I didn't need a fill so I didn't bother to check if that was a legit price (it's probably for 85 if it is). If you know where to look you can easily get 370. Michigan has better prices than most states. Out in Cali if the price fell before 4 I was happy.

[SadieMirsade]

Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire

Funny because you guys started the finger pointing. What do you think it means when you say Detroit failed and needs intervention? Is that not finger pointing? I don't remember someone from Detroit pointing the finger the other way and saying you failed and your community needs intervention. A lot of blame can be spread around, you do you and I'll do me.

As to the family, I got my kids. They're the only 2 people I care about in this world. I don't care what you do, I don't care about your family, I don't care if you make it big or are on the bread line.

There, is that PG enough for you YAC?

You're not only extremely angry, you're also borderline anti-social.
I don't want to sound snotty or condescending, but you'd better deal with it...before it gets you in trouble again.

How do you expect your own kids to grow up to be well-adjusted citizens, if you're teaching them no to give a **** about their fellow citizen, their neighbor, their schoolmate.

I'm not saying that you should care about me more than you care about yourself, but at what point will we become a society where everyone somehow matters, (because we all somehow affect each other's lives).

Does China have to economically choke us or invade us, before we GET IT?
You definitely don't.

[Tyryztoll]

Detroit is the perfect example of a failed city. Failed economically. Failed socially. Failed government. Failed on just about every level. You have a couple sports stadiums, a couple coney joints, and a couple decent colleges. Every now and then a show or a festival. Aside from that, there is no reason to go there, short of passing through on the way to Canada. The skyline is made up of ghost buildings, and the neighborhoods are war zones. Businesses are afraid to anchor there. The majority of citizens are apathetic, afraid, or both. Many of them would do anything it took just to keep the city the way it is now. Just look at the people they've elected to government in the past for all the proof you need. Even Bing, who was supposed to be a revitalizer, has adopted the "We don't need any outsiders" attitude. I'm from Detroit, and would never even consider moving my family back there. The city is literally a ruin.

Look at Chicago if you want to see what Detroit could have been. It may not have been as big, but it certainly could have been every bit as dynamic. Political shananigans aside, Chicago found a way to get it done. It will never happen with Detroit during any of our lifetimes now.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Northman

Detroit is the perfect example of a failed city. Failed economically. Failed socially. Failed government. Failed on just about every level. You have a couple sports stadiums, a couple coney joints, and a couple decent colleges. Every now and then a show or a festival. Aside from that, there is no reason to go there, short of passing through on the way to Canada. The skyline is made up of ghost buildings, and the neighborhoods are war zones. Businesses are afraid to anchor there. The majority of citizens are apathetic, afraid, or both. Many of them would do anything it took just to keep the city the way it is now. Just look at the people they've elected to government in the past for all the proof you need. Even Bing, who was supposed to be a revitalizer, has adopted the "We don't need any outsiders" attitude. I'm from Detroit, and would never even consider moving my family back there. The city is literally a ruin.

Look at Chicago if you want to see what Detroit could have been. It may not have been as big, but it certainly could have been every bit as dynamic. Political shananigans aside, Chicago found a way to get it done. It will never happen with Detroit during any of our lifetimes now.

Lol....why don't you try moving to another country then......because you should take a look at the state of your country my friend. How many wars have the mayors of Detroit started in the last 10 years? What part of the 60 trillion debt, that includes unfunded liabilities, was created by Detroit leaders? What part of the standard of living decline in America was the doing of Detroit leadership? If the dollar was not the worlds reserve currency and if oil was not traded in dollars.....my friend....you probably would not have a pot to pee in right about now. You live in a "failed" bankrupt country that has to borrow and print money to stay affloat, as well as threaten and muscle other nation, with its military, not to do what's in those nations best economic interest for it would bring down the US house of cards that is the product, doing and thinking of people JUST LIKE YOU. Your success comes from stealing from the future or stealing from others.