Detroit - Is $13,000 enough? (Lansing, Palmer: apartments, movers, house)

[BoomRShine]

Originally Posted by RatKing216

Yeah... I could never see myself having a house. Even as a kid, I never wanted a house. A condo, maybe. A house... No.
Also, since the job market was brought up, it was slipping my mind for some reason that Detroit actually has an unemployment rate that is almost 2.5 times that of Cleveland!!! What's up with that? Are jobs really that hard to come by, or is 30% of Detroit just lazy? I'm not being funny, I'm actually seriously wondering what went wrong in Detroit.

Where did you get those numbers? According to the BLS, Detroit's unemployment rate is 19.9% (still not good, obviously), and Cleveland's is 10.3%. Those figures are from last year, actually, so the rate has probably dropped a little bit. And, those figures are for the city proper. For metro areas, Detroit's is 11.5%, and Cleveland's is 7.7%.

[RatKing216]

Originally Posted by BoomRShine

Where did you get those numbers? According to the BLS, Detroit's unemployment rate is 19.9% (still not good, obviously), and Cleveland's is 10.3%. Those figures are from last year, actually, so the rate has probably dropped a little bit. And, those figures are for the city proper. For metro areas, Detroit's is 11.5%, and Cleveland's is 7.7%.

Sorry, I really thought it was closer to 25% or so. That might have been a few years ago. The point is though, that Detroit still has twice the Unemployment Rate compared to Cleveland!!! I guess now my question is... Seeing what's going on in Cleveland at this point, do you think the same will happen in Detroit? That could REALLY help the Unemployment Rates throughout the entire Metro if it did.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by RatKing216

Yeah... I could never see myself having a house. Even as a kid, I never wanted a house. A condo, maybe. A house... No.
Also, since the job market was brought up, it was slipping my mind for some reason that Detroit actually has an unemployment rate that is almost 2.5 times that of Cleveland!!! What's up with that? Are jobs really that hard to come by, or is 30% of Detroit just lazy? I'm not being funny, I'm actually seriously wondering what went wrong in Detroit.

It's really that bad, as someone who's also looking for work.

[JoulesMSU]

I think that maybe you should consider Lansing. It's not as big as Detroit, but it has plenty to offer IMO.

1) You can easily find a place to rent for under $600. I'm currently in a 2-story duplex with 2 bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms, a basement, and a outdoor garage for only $680 a month and prior to that I had the first story of a house (first story was all one apartment, second story was another) which had 2 bedrooms, a bathroom, and a backyard for $695 a month. So that is what you can get if you are willing to go up to $700. Prior to both of those I had a 1 bed/1 bath apartment for $605 a month. All of them had a washer and dryer. If you don't particularly care about having in-house laundry then you can find places for much cheaper. I remember I looked at a few which were $400-something, but none had a washer/dryer so I passed.

Even just looking at craigslist (lansing apts/housing for rent classifieds - craigslist) there are plenty of places for under $600. Right now I see some for: $525, $469, $585, $494, $505, $550, and $450 on the first page.

2) Lansing is very transplant friendly since Michigan State is nearby and that draws in people from around the country and around the world.

3) Lansing is actually doable without a car, especially if you live downtown. CATA is a very good bus service that covers pretty much the entire area (both Lansing and East Lansing) and it's pretty affordable at $1.20 per ride (or you could get an "unlimited pass" which, I'm sure if you used it enough would be worth it).

4) Lansing is doing really well right now. It was never as reliant on the auto industry as Detroit was so it was never really "hit hard" by all the outsourced jobs. In fact, there are actually a lot of technology jobs that seem to be popping up, along with obviously the tons of government jobs (due to being the state capital). Downtown is also very nice with a lot going on, especially on the weekends. In the summer it seems like there is a festival going on somewhere in town just about every week.

5) There is not nearly as much urban decay in Lansing as there is in Detroit. The main part of downtown (near the capital building, especially Michigan Avenue and Washington Square) is very nice with only the Knapp building and an abandoned YMCA (several blocks out of the way) being the only "decayed" buildings I can even think of. And the Knapp building is being prepared for restoration last I heard.

6) I feel safe in Lansing. I walk home from the bars at 2 AM all the time, sometimes alone, and have never had a problem.

I know you didn't ask about it. But if you are thinking about Detroit, maybe you should look into Lansing as well. IMO the only things that Detroit offer which Lansing doesn't are professional sports teams (although we have Michigan State sports, so it's still a high level to watch, especially football and basketball), a casino, easy access to Canada, and... ??? I can't really think of anything else lol. Especially if you are looking for work, there is a ton of turnover at unskilled jobs around Lansing because of all the college kids who work them for a while and then move on, so I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities.

[RatKing216]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

It's really that bad, as someone who's also looking for work.

Even for Fast Food and Wal-Marts though? I mean... No one is hiring?

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by RatKing216

Even for Fast Food and Wal-Marts though? I mean... No one is hiring?

Lol, Detroit has no supermarkets except for a Kmart way on the city limits. There's two Meijers that are soon to be built though. However, retail at one point in time was leaving Detroit just as fast as the residents.

GM is the only car company with its HQ in Detroit. Ford is in Dearborn and Chrysler is in Auburn Hills (a suburb that gets only 30% of it's taxes from residential property). Chrysler was also HQ'd in Highland Park at one point before moving to Auburn Hills. At which point, HP lost a lot of tax revenue and is currently under a financial manager.

A majority of the car factories (and most manufacturing/industrial jobs) are in Sterling Heights, Warren, Dearborn, and Livonia. Only a few are within Detroit city limits.

Southfield, Troy, and Novi are major business suburbs. A large percentage of their tax base comes from commercial property taxes. (Kmart, for example, was HQ'd in Troy at one point in time).

Added to the problem is that transit isn't exactly efficient enough to connect all these areas let alone connect to Detroit. Residents who can afford to do so simply move to where the jobs are (the suburbs). Residents who can't afford to do so are left to find other means of making money or simply move away from Detroit altogether. Easy to see the spiral effect this cause with tax revenue and city services doesn't it? Less tax revenue, less schools, less police, other residents being driven out by deteriorating conditions, etc, etc. Corruption doesn't help much either.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Lol, Detroit has no supermarkets except for a Kmart way on the city limits. There's two Meijers that are soon to be built though. However, retail at one point in time was leaving Detroit just as fast as the residents.

Detroit has "supermarkets"

They're just not very pleasant "supermarkets", and the owners (Chaldeans) tend to have their family members help them with store operations instead of hiring people on a payroll to save on costs.

As far as if anyone's hiring, it's not so much that no one's hiring, rather there's such so much competition for the few jobs out there.

Just to test the waters, I posted an ad on Craigslist for an Administrative Assistant with a wage of $12-$14/hr. People with 3-5+ years and Bachelor's Degrees were applying for that job, and I received at least 60 applications within a few days before I eventually stopped keeping count.

Then of course with the manufacturing plants, they laid off so many people when the recession began that instead of hiring in new individuals they're just calling back in those they laid off when there's an increase in demand.

So you can imagine how much harder it is to land a minimum wage job (which is impossible to live on without some type of government assistance if you're not looking for a roommate arrangement). Remember when McDonald's had its big hiring event to fill 60,000 positions? Over 1 million applied and after the 62,000 jobs were filled everyone else was turned away.

[rucks]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Lol, Detroit has no supermarkets except for a Kmart way on the city limits.

This is not true.

[rucks]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Detroit has "supermarkets"

They're just not very pleasant "supermarkets", and the owners (Chaldeans) tend to have their family members help them with store operations instead of hiring people on a payroll to save on costs.

I'm not certain this is true or not a pleasant is subjective term. I've shopped in supermarkets in the city that I've found pleasant.I've also shopped in a few that left much to be desired.

[Coldjensens]

You do not have to work in Detroit. You can live int he city and work in the burbds. The roads really do go both ways.

The entry level jobs in the burbs like McDonalds and wallmart are almost all part time. You may get 35 hours a week, you may get 7. Our local McDonalds hires over 50 people, many of them only work a few hours a month. They like to hire people under 18 because they can pay less than minimum wage.

My kids have not had any difficulty finding part time entry level jobs. they do not have a lot of choices, but there are jobs out there. They (my kids) have the advantage of nearly perfect grades in school, top 10 in their class, etc. I am not sure, but i think that may help them get even stupid jobs when there is competition. they also have a very good work ethic. They work at work even if everyone else is standing around becuase they can get away with it.

Michigan is in a pretty decent recovery. It is not a boom, but a steady trickle. Many of the experienced and skilled workers left or retired. Now that things are picking back up, there is a shortage in some areas.

In some areas, employers are desperate for good workers. Good heavy equipment operators in construciton are in short supply. there are plenty of people saying they can do it, but they are not skilled, and/or they cannot pass the pee tests (i.e. they are drug users). Michigan Cat was advertising recently for people to train as techinicians. I am not sure whether they filled those positions or not, but construciton company owners were complaining to me a week ago about the shortage of GOOD workers. (Good meaning, competent, non-drug users and people who will actually work.).

Sure there is high employment, especially in detroit, but how many of those people are actually fit to work. How many have not used drugs? How many have a really good work ethic? How many are even seriously willing to take a job? I know some people who have been on unemployment for more than a year, and they love it. They are always making excuses to turn down jobs that come up. There also plenty of good workers out there who simply have not been able to connect withthe right company, or who have not been able to demonstrate that they are not like the masses of other, basically unemployable persons who tromp through the mills looking for jobs. While Detroit area has a high unemplyment rate, it is partly becasue we have a high unemployable rate. People with no skills, no work ethic, no useful training and unwillingness to re-train, who are too picky and want 1999 union pay and benefits or nothing at all - lots of things.

That is not to say it is job heaven. However it is not impossible to find work either. It all depends on your abilites, skills, and flexibility.

Can you pass a Pee test? Do you work hard? Do you have anything you can offer to proove you work hard? Do you have any skills at all? Mechanically inclined?